Hi all,
I posted about a bug in September 2005 about a silly bug in Skype. Because of this, I can only make one call. I need to restart skype to make the next call.
http://forum.skype.com/viewtopic.php?t=357...5727&highlight=
This issue has not been resolved in 6 months. And the rate at which skype Linux code is churned out is decreasing too.
Does this mean Skype is not really interested in Linux? Any ideas?
Sudhakar
Full Version: Is Skype still developing Linux?
I want to know that too.
I've sent my question on this to Skype but still have no reply.
Maybe some day we should all go to wengophone ... dunno
If anyone work in Skype see this thread, please answer.
I've sent my question on this to Skype but still have no reply.
Maybe some day we should all go to wengophone ... dunno
If anyone work in Skype see this thread, please answer.
[quote=yookoala]If anyone work in Skype see this thread, please answer.[/quote] LOL don't hold your breathe.
http://juljas.net/linux/skype/ is a fix for the dsp bug.
http://juljas.net/linux/skype/ is a fix for the dsp bug.
yes, they are, just read other threads. They're just uber slow.
xboxrulz
xboxrulz
I'm not saying Skype isn't developing the Linux client, but I am saying their release cycle needs some work. One of the things that tempted me to use Skype when I first picked it up was that it was cross platform. This means that Windows users, Mac users, and Linux users could all communicate. However, I first noted that the Mac client was getting out of sycn as chats could not be closed. Next, the Linux client could not receive all of the emoticons. Now, flat out, the Linux client is WAAAAAY behind. First off, the Linux client does not have the emoticons, none of the sounds work (perhaps they work for some people, but I imagine the developers have hard coded the paths for where the client should use the sounds...to locate the sounds, it should look at where the client is located and open the appropriate subdirectory), and where is the new video features? Then there are the bugs...apparently the client does not blit correctly after such a duration on the screen and the lower fourth of the contact list becomes garbled until I do a resize on the client. Next, the way the chat windows can't be resized to as small as I want them is another issue. By forcing these chat windows to be a certain size, it uses too much screen real-estate.
Don't get me wrong, I would be holding back these sort of comments, but the LAST RELEASE DATE WAS IN OCTOBER OF 2005! The other clients have been released 2006 MULTIPLE TIMES. Guys, get a grip here. You should not release ANY clients until all features are identical across all platforms. Is this because of the Ebay buy out that the programmers are being forced to work primarily on Windows now? If this is the case, then the bells of success that I have heard ringing in all the technical reports for Skype need to stop. Because really, it is the first step to degraded offerings to its community.
Haz
Don't get me wrong, I would be holding back these sort of comments, but the LAST RELEASE DATE WAS IN OCTOBER OF 2005! The other clients have been released 2006 MULTIPLE TIMES. Guys, get a grip here. You should not release ANY clients until all features are identical across all platforms. Is this because of the Ebay buy out that the programmers are being forced to work primarily on Windows now? If this is the case, then the bells of success that I have heard ringing in all the technical reports for Skype need to stop. Because really, it is the first step to degraded offerings to its community.
Haz
It seems that anytime a really good program that comes out for linux and gets huge attention ends up getting bought out by the competition.
Personally I think it sucks but on the other hand I realize the competition is so scared that linux will actually put them to shame they have to resort to such low-life BS actions to win.
Skype was a real nice program to have for linux. It showed alot of potential. Now its a desktop icon paper-weight.
Personally I think it sucks but on the other hand I realize the competition is so scared that linux will actually put them to shame they have to resort to such low-life BS actions to win.
Skype was a real nice program to have for linux. It showed alot of potential. Now its a desktop icon paper-weight.
I think there is a future between Skype and Linux. The partnership with Xandros seems to be flourishing as they have recently released the Surfside product which even comes with a Plantronic headset inside the box.
Skype as part of this software package seems to be their main selling point they are hitting on.
Skype as part of this software package seems to be their main selling point they are hitting on.
[quote=sgrayban]
Personally I think it sucks but on the other hand I realize the competition is so scared that linux will actually put them to shame they have to resort to such low-life BS actions to win.
[/quote]
So, in other words. you are convinced that Microsoft paid Ebay to buy skype and shutdown the linux development, is that it?
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
Personally I think it sucks but on the other hand I realize the competition is so scared that linux will actually put them to shame they have to resort to such low-life BS actions to win.
[/quote]
So, in other words. you are convinced that Microsoft paid Ebay to buy skype and shutdown the linux development, is that it?
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
[quote=icebike]Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
Actually I do know how cheap 99% of linux users are. I'm a developer also. The mere suggestion of money in any sense means ZERO to them. Linux users think free means exactly that.I have ranted about this over and over even in my own blog about how cheap linux users are. You can't even get them to make donations.
I donate to all the projects of programs I use if they have a donation system going. I know how much work goes into a program even if its free.
And I do pay for skype out access. Its cheap and its a good way to talk to my parents and family. I would be willing to keep on paying and maybe buy more services from skype if I know development was still going on for the linux version. But as it is now skype out is the only thing I will pay for.
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
Actually I do know how cheap 99% of linux users are. I'm a developer also. The mere suggestion of money in any sense means ZERO to them. Linux users think free means exactly that.I have ranted about this over and over even in my own blog about how cheap linux users are. You can't even get them to make donations.
I donate to all the projects of programs I use if they have a donation system going. I know how much work goes into a program even if its free.
And I do pay for skype out access. Its cheap and its a good way to talk to my parents and family. I would be willing to keep on paying and maybe buy more services from skype if I know development was still going on for the linux version. But as it is now skype out is the only thing I will pay for.
[quote=icebike]and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?[/quote]
I beg to differ. Quite a few of the linux users I know is happily putting their money into services like skype (or as contributions to the projects they feel deserve it) if they get a value out of it.
If using a free OS is "being cheap", what do you call the 85% windows users using a pirated OS?
The majority of the Skype resistance I see in the linux community is political and based on the fact that Skype is not open source (and under constant threat of death) and not based on existing open standards but on proprietary technology.
If there is a better alternative, linux users are likely to go there, if not Skype will get their money.
I beg to differ. Quite a few of the linux users I know is happily putting their money into services like skype (or as contributions to the projects they feel deserve it) if they get a value out of it.
If using a free OS is "being cheap", what do you call the 85% windows users using a pirated OS?
The majority of the Skype resistance I see in the linux community is political and based on the fact that Skype is not open source (and under constant threat of death) and not based on existing open standards but on proprietary technology.
If there is a better alternative, linux users are likely to go there, if not Skype will get their money.
Skype is still developing the Linux client. I know our development focus is currently heavily biased towards the Windows client, but the work on Linux is far from being stopped entirely.
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.
I would like to see something getting released even if its a beta version. When can still report what does and doesnt work atleast.
In theory what works now should also work in the betas. Its the new stuff added that would be buggy.
In theory what works now should also work in the betas. Its the new stuff added that would be buggy.
[quote="icebike"][quote=sgrayban]
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
[/quote]
What r u saying?........u mean that what i pay for my skype groups is less than the same with windows?
perhaps linux users aren't available to spend money for a bad service, but if u give them a good client they will spend as other to use it, and for the same the "relative market size" will grow (as it's now)
i really don't understand u...it's seems to me that u don't want linux grow...
[quote="icebike"][quote=sgrayban]
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
[/quote]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
[/quote]
What r u saying?........u mean that what i pay for my skype groups is less than the same with windows?
perhaps linux users aren't available to spend money for a bad service, but if u give them a good client they will spend as other to use it, and for the same the "relative market size" will grow (as it's now)
i really don't understand u...it's seems to me that u don't want linux grow...
[quote="icebike"][quote=sgrayban]
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
[/quote]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.
I didn't say what is quoted above. Please edit your post and correct it.
[quote=ppmotskula]Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?[/quote]
I'd rather have something released then nothing. It would show active development. When you have so many users complaining of bugs and not even a beta is released it sends the wrong signal out.
[quote=ppmotskula]Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
What release policy? I have yet to even see that.
I'm paying customer. Even though I am using the linux as well as the windows I shouldn't be forced into one version that works ok in windows and a crappy version that has alot of bugs in linux.
I'd rather have something released then nothing. It would show active development. When you have so many users complaining of bugs and not even a beta is released it sends the wrong signal out.
[quote=ppmotskula]Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
What release policy? I have yet to even see that.
I'm paying customer. Even though I am using the linux as well as the windows I shouldn't be forced into one version that works ok in windows and a crappy version that has alot of bugs in linux.
[quote=fhe][quote=icebike]and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?[/quote]
I beg to differ. Quite a few of the linux users I know is happily putting their money into services like skype (or as contributions to the projects they feel deserve it) if they get a value out of it.
If using a free OS is "being cheap", what do you call the 85% windows users using a pirated OS?
The majority of the Skype resistance I see in the linux community is political and based on the fact that Skype is not open source (and under constant threat of death) and not based on existing open standards but on proprietary technology.
If there is a better alternative, linux users are likely to go there, if not Skype will get their money.[/quote]
I really beg to differ here. I develope a podcatcher program for linux and the donations I get compared to the number of downloads and unique hits to the update url is pathetic.
Last month I had over 20,000 unique hits to the update url and I have only recieved $310 in donations for the last 5 month's. Thats a very low return for my work in ratio to users that are using it.
And my code is 100% GPL and opensource.
This goes to show you that no matter if a program is GPL or not LINUX USERS ARE CHEAP.
The majority of linux users have the thinking process that because linux itself is free so must be everything else.
I beg to differ. Quite a few of the linux users I know is happily putting their money into services like skype (or as contributions to the projects they feel deserve it) if they get a value out of it.
If using a free OS is "being cheap", what do you call the 85% windows users using a pirated OS?
The majority of the Skype resistance I see in the linux community is political and based on the fact that Skype is not open source (and under constant threat of death) and not based on existing open standards but on proprietary technology.
If there is a better alternative, linux users are likely to go there, if not Skype will get their money.[/quote]
I really beg to differ here. I develope a podcatcher program for linux and the donations I get compared to the number of downloads and unique hits to the update url is pathetic.
Last month I had over 20,000 unique hits to the update url and I have only recieved $310 in donations for the last 5 month's. Thats a very low return for my work in ratio to users that are using it.
And my code is 100% GPL and opensource.
This goes to show you that no matter if a program is GPL or not LINUX USERS ARE CHEAP.
The majority of linux users have the thinking process that because linux itself is free so must be everything else.
[quote="icebike"][quote=sgrayban]
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
I don't think that your thoughts will prove as the future of Skype.
I think that many people at Skype will know that Linux users are indeed very important. Linux users are most often very experienced computer users, they are tecchies/geeks and are the first ones who try new software.
The success of a software product is always a result of a swarm-like phenomen. And it's a fact that Linux users are at the front of this swarm and do control it's direction to quite some degree.
Take me for instance: I tried Skype (Linux) quite early and since then I installed Skype for around 20 friends/collegues on their Windows platforms who are happily "skyping" now. I personally like Skype - although I regret that it's not open - for it's ease of use and the high software quality. However, if other VoIP solutions, such as OpenWengo have a better VoIP Linux client, I will consider switching - and if I do, all my friends and collegues will follow sooner or later.
Skype is today in a difficult situations: There are so many other emerging VoIP clients, such as SIP, GoogleTalk, OpenWengo etc. Skype's only advantage is their massive user base. I don't think they would risk losing it by dropping support for initial key user groups, such as Linux users are.
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
I don't think that your thoughts will prove as the future of Skype.
I think that many people at Skype will know that Linux users are indeed very important. Linux users are most often very experienced computer users, they are tecchies/geeks and are the first ones who try new software.
The success of a software product is always a result of a swarm-like phenomen. And it's a fact that Linux users are at the front of this swarm and do control it's direction to quite some degree.
Take me for instance: I tried Skype (Linux) quite early and since then I installed Skype for around 20 friends/collegues on their Windows platforms who are happily "skyping" now. I personally like Skype - although I regret that it's not open - for it's ease of use and the high software quality. However, if other VoIP solutions, such as OpenWengo have a better VoIP Linux client, I will consider switching - and if I do, all my friends and collegues will follow sooner or later.
Skype is today in a difficult situations: There are so many other emerging VoIP clients, such as SIP, GoogleTalk, OpenWengo etc. Skype's only advantage is their massive user base. I don't think they would risk losing it by dropping support for initial key user groups, such as Linux users are.
[quote="icebike"][quote=sgrayban]
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
I DID NOT SAY THIS !!!!!!! icebike did. Bloody flippn hell....
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
Ebay overpaid for skype by a factor of 1000. They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.[/quote]
I DID NOT SAY THIS !!!!!!! icebike did. Bloody flippn hell....
[quote=ppmotskula]Skype is still developing the Linux client. I know our development focus is currently heavily biased towards the Windows client, but the work on Linux is far from being stopped entirely.
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
In short: I recommend to release public betas on a regular basis, e.g. 2 to 4 weeks and realease some kind of roadmap.
One of Skype/Linux's strength is its easy installation. It was so charming to have a Linux software package that was installable with a simple "rpm -ivh skype-xxx.rpm" on my Linux SuSE and worked OUT-OF-THE-BOX! This is so different with OpenWengo, Gaim and all the others.
However, Linux geeks simply want to see advancements, they want to test "new features". So it's very important to give them something they can play around with.
Moreover they simply fear that they are "forgotten" - don't let them think so by showing them that something is indeed going on! Give them a roadmap, give them a blog or something similar.
If you make us Linux users happy, this will for sure pay back in the long run!
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
In short: I recommend to release public betas on a regular basis, e.g. 2 to 4 weeks and realease some kind of roadmap.
One of Skype/Linux's strength is its easy installation. It was so charming to have a Linux software package that was installable with a simple "rpm -ivh skype-xxx.rpm" on my Linux SuSE and worked OUT-OF-THE-BOX! This is so different with OpenWengo, Gaim and all the others.
However, Linux geeks simply want to see advancements, they want to test "new features". So it's very important to give them something they can play around with.
Moreover they simply fear that they are "forgotten" - don't let them think so by showing them that something is indeed going on! Give them a roadmap, give them a blog or something similar.
If you make us Linux users happy, this will for sure pay back in the long run!
It's more than just a need for a road map. The claim now made here is that Skype is still developing Linux. That's good news. The implication is that Skype has not released beta versions and is waiting to release some more stable version of the Linux Skype.
But Skype released the current Linux version in October, 2005. That version had a major flaw: for most users, the program would permit only one call; it then was necessary to re-start it.
After literally hundreds and hundreds of people complaining, the Linux community of losers determined that the problem was with the hangup.wav file and that a re-naming of that file (so that it couldn't be invoked) would solve the major flaw.
This solution was reached without any assistance whatsoever from anyone at Skype. In fact, you can search this forum in vain through all the many threads about this enormously frustrating flaw and not find a single response from Skype employee.
I think that the Linux community is justified in complaining that Skype has not cared about their Linux customers. They didn't have to come out with beta releases; they simply needed to acknowledge that they knew a serious problem existed in the current version and that they were working on it.
As to the cheapness of Linux users, I can agree that most seem to be very reluctant to part with money. At the same time, I'd point out that many Linux users actually pay for their distros (else Mandriva and Suse wouldn't be in business and Mepis wouldn't have been able to commercialize their distro). And many pay for sofware after turning to Linux (else SkypeOut wouldn't have Linux customers and Codeweavers wouldn't be in business).
When developers make their software available for free and then ask for contributions, they are inviting people to not pay. Many who use that software won't. But when software developers produce a desirable product and require payment in return, Linux users will do what others do: they'll pay. Free software (shareware) for Windows suffers the same fate as for Linux. It's not Linux vs Windows in terms of willingness to pay. It's people.
But Skype released the current Linux version in October, 2005. That version had a major flaw: for most users, the program would permit only one call; it then was necessary to re-start it.
After literally hundreds and hundreds of people complaining, the Linux community of losers determined that the problem was with the hangup.wav file and that a re-naming of that file (so that it couldn't be invoked) would solve the major flaw.
This solution was reached without any assistance whatsoever from anyone at Skype. In fact, you can search this forum in vain through all the many threads about this enormously frustrating flaw and not find a single response from Skype employee.
I think that the Linux community is justified in complaining that Skype has not cared about their Linux customers. They didn't have to come out with beta releases; they simply needed to acknowledge that they knew a serious problem existed in the current version and that they were working on it.
As to the cheapness of Linux users, I can agree that most seem to be very reluctant to part with money. At the same time, I'd point out that many Linux users actually pay for their distros (else Mandriva and Suse wouldn't be in business and Mepis wouldn't have been able to commercialize their distro). And many pay for sofware after turning to Linux (else SkypeOut wouldn't have Linux customers and Codeweavers wouldn't be in business).
When developers make their software available for free and then ask for contributions, they are inviting people to not pay. Many who use that software won't. But when software developers produce a desirable product and require payment in return, Linux users will do what others do: they'll pay. Free software (shareware) for Windows suffers the same fate as for Linux. It's not Linux vs Windows in terms of willingness to pay. It's people.
[quote=randcoop]It's more than just a need for a road map. The claim now made here is that Skype is still developing Linux. That's good news. The implication is that Skype has not released beta versions and is waiting to release some more stable version of the Linux Skype.
But Skype released the current Linux version in October, 2005. That version had a major flaw: for most users, the program would permit only one call; it then was necessary to re-start it.
After literally hundreds and hundreds of people complaining, the Linux community of losers determined that the problem was with the hangup.wav file and that a re-naming of that file (so that it couldn't be invoked) would solve the major flaw.
This solution was reached without any assistance whatsoever from anyone at Skype. In fact, you can search this forum in vain through all the many threads about this enormously frustrating flaw and not find a single response from Skype employee.
I think that the Linux community is justified in complaining that Skype has not cared about their Linux customers. They didn't have to come out with beta releases; they simply needed to acknowledge that they knew a serious problem existed in the current version and that they were working on it.[/quote]
Someone even made a library that would fix this issue as well. It's sad and a shame when a closed source/protocol wont help when there is a serious flaw with there code and a user has to come up with a hack to make it work.
That shows ZERO in supporting skype. It also sends out a huge note to users that skype does not care at all.
[quote=randcoop]As to the cheapness of Linux users, I can agree that most seem to be very reluctant to part with money. At the same time, I'd point out that many Linux users actually pay for their distros (else Mandriva and Suse wouldn't be in business and Mepis wouldn't have been able to commercialize their distro). And many pay for sofware after turning to Linux (else SkypeOut wouldn't have Linux customers and Codeweavers wouldn't be in business).
When developers make their software available for free and then ask for contributions, they are inviting people to not pay. Many who use that software won't. But when software developers produce a desirable product and require payment in return, Linux users will do what others do: they'll pay. Free software (shareware) for Windows suffers the same fate as for Linux. It's not Linux vs Windows in terms of willingness to pay. It's people.[/quote]
Mandriva, Suse, Debian & Redhat all have the free versions of there distro's which is directly supported by there corporate versions which is not free. That's how those distro's and others are able to continue. It's certainly not supported by the generous support of there average user base that uses the free versions they offer.
Codeweavers isn't really linux native -- its a seriously hacked code of wine to support certain windows programs. I know cause I work there.
As for cheap linux users your emplying that since I get little support from my user base for my program I should now turn it into a pay-for program in order to justify its exsistance? I think just not working on it anymore and spending my time on it works just as well. Let someone else have the headaches that comes with it.
Well I have thought about making it a pay-for program anyways for quite some time now. Might just do that.
But Skype released the current Linux version in October, 2005. That version had a major flaw: for most users, the program would permit only one call; it then was necessary to re-start it.
After literally hundreds and hundreds of people complaining, the Linux community of losers determined that the problem was with the hangup.wav file and that a re-naming of that file (so that it couldn't be invoked) would solve the major flaw.
This solution was reached without any assistance whatsoever from anyone at Skype. In fact, you can search this forum in vain through all the many threads about this enormously frustrating flaw and not find a single response from Skype employee.
I think that the Linux community is justified in complaining that Skype has not cared about their Linux customers. They didn't have to come out with beta releases; they simply needed to acknowledge that they knew a serious problem existed in the current version and that they were working on it.[/quote]
Someone even made a library that would fix this issue as well. It's sad and a shame when a closed source/protocol wont help when there is a serious flaw with there code and a user has to come up with a hack to make it work.
That shows ZERO in supporting skype. It also sends out a huge note to users that skype does not care at all.
[quote=randcoop]As to the cheapness of Linux users, I can agree that most seem to be very reluctant to part with money. At the same time, I'd point out that many Linux users actually pay for their distros (else Mandriva and Suse wouldn't be in business and Mepis wouldn't have been able to commercialize their distro). And many pay for sofware after turning to Linux (else SkypeOut wouldn't have Linux customers and Codeweavers wouldn't be in business).
When developers make their software available for free and then ask for contributions, they are inviting people to not pay. Many who use that software won't. But when software developers produce a desirable product and require payment in return, Linux users will do what others do: they'll pay. Free software (shareware) for Windows suffers the same fate as for Linux. It's not Linux vs Windows in terms of willingness to pay. It's people.[/quote]
Mandriva, Suse, Debian & Redhat all have the free versions of there distro's which is directly supported by there corporate versions which is not free. That's how those distro's and others are able to continue. It's certainly not supported by the generous support of there average user base that uses the free versions they offer.
Codeweavers isn't really linux native -- its a seriously hacked code of wine to support certain windows programs. I know cause I work there.
As for cheap linux users your emplying that since I get little support from my user base for my program I should now turn it into a pay-for program in order to justify its exsistance? I think just not working on it anymore and spending my time on it works just as well. Let someone else have the headaches that comes with it.
Well I have thought about making it a pay-for program anyways for quite some time now. Might just do that.
[quote=ppmotskula]Skype is still developing the Linux client. I know our development focus is currently heavily biased towards the Windows client, but the work on Linux is far from being stopped entirely.
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
A beta is a beta for the bugs isn't it?
So release a beta aside the current version, just like you did with the windows client. If you want to call with a bleeding edge version of skype, then that will be your choise. And if ur going the bleeding edge way you can also report bugs you encounter. Together with some traceback output and such, because for debugging linux is a lot of easier then windows. So releasing a beta for linux is more logic then releasing a beta for windows.
Thx in advance for releasing a beta
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
A beta is a beta for the bugs isn't it?
So release a beta aside the current version, just like you did with the windows client. If you want to call with a bleeding edge version of skype, then that will be your choise. And if ur going the bleeding edge way you can also report bugs you encounter. Together with some traceback output and such, because for debugging linux is a lot of easier then windows. So releasing a beta for linux is more logic then releasing a beta for windows.
Thx in advance for releasing a beta
[quote=sgrayban]This goes to show you that no matter if a program is GPL or not LINUX USERS ARE CHEAP.[/quote]
Quit bitching. Maybe your program just sucks? (Since you're insulting linux users, I might as well insult you too...)
Be that as it may. I use Skype for Linux, and I pay for skypeout calls. The fact that there is no version of skype with alsa support irritates me because I have to stop every other sound app to make a call. I'm sure there are many others that think the same.
Linux is not about not paying, it's about freedom.
P.S. If you use Windows, did you go out and buy the copy of Windows you're running?
Quit bitching. Maybe your program just sucks? (Since you're insulting linux users, I might as well insult you too...)
Be that as it may. I use Skype for Linux, and I pay for skypeout calls. The fact that there is no version of skype with alsa support irritates me because I have to stop every other sound app to make a call. I'm sure there are many others that think the same.
Linux is not about not paying, it's about freedom.
P.S. If you use Windows, did you go out and buy the copy of Windows you're running?
[quote=l.colitti][quote=sgrayban]This goes to show you that no matter if a program is GPL or not LINUX USERS ARE CHEAP.[/quote]
Quit bitching. Maybe your program just sucks? (Since you're insulting linux users, I might as well insult you too...)
Be that as it may. I use Skype for Linux, and I pay for skypeout calls. The fact that there is no version of skype with alsa support irritates me because I have to stop every other sound app to make a call. I'm sure there are many others that think the same.
Linux is not about not paying, it's about freedom.
P.S. If you use Windows, did you go out and buy the copy of Windows you're running?[/quote]
Wow, how long did it take you to think that up?
And yes I did pay for my windows OS when I used it. I don't steal but it sounds like you do.
And linux is about freedom but its also about supporting opensource programs regardless what it is. You think coding and debugging is just time thats frozen?
Actually you suck -- troll someplace else and when you actually do use that tiny amount of grey matter between your ears then you can make your intelligent comments.
Quit bitching. Maybe your program just sucks? (Since you're insulting linux users, I might as well insult you too...)
Be that as it may. I use Skype for Linux, and I pay for skypeout calls. The fact that there is no version of skype with alsa support irritates me because I have to stop every other sound app to make a call. I'm sure there are many others that think the same.
Linux is not about not paying, it's about freedom.
P.S. If you use Windows, did you go out and buy the copy of Windows you're running?[/quote]
Wow, how long did it take you to think that up?
And yes I did pay for my windows OS when I used it. I don't steal but it sounds like you do.
And linux is about freedom but its also about supporting opensource programs regardless what it is. You think coding and debugging is just time thats frozen?
Actually you suck -- troll someplace else and when you actually do use that tiny amount of grey matter between your ears then you can make your intelligent comments.
[quote=sgrayban]
And yes I did pay for my windows OS when I used it. I don't steal but it sounds like you do.[/quote]
I don't use Windows.
[quote]And linux is about freedom but its also about supporting opensource programs regardless what it is. You think coding and debugging is just time thats frozen?[/quote]
I know that development takes time, I develop software too. But if you're in it for the money, then maybe you should be doing something else.
[quote]Actually you suck -- troll someplace else and when you actually do use that tiny amount of grey matter between your ears then you can make your intelligent comments.[/quote]
Thanks for these most enlightening comments.
And yes I did pay for my windows OS when I used it. I don't steal but it sounds like you do.[/quote]
I don't use Windows.
[quote]And linux is about freedom but its also about supporting opensource programs regardless what it is. You think coding and debugging is just time thats frozen?[/quote]
I know that development takes time, I develop software too. But if you're in it for the money, then maybe you should be doing something else.
[quote]Actually you suck -- troll someplace else and when you actually do use that tiny amount of grey matter between your ears then you can make your intelligent comments.[/quote]
Thanks for these most enlightening comments.
[quote=ppmotskula] but the work on Linux is far from being stopped entirely.[/quote]
you never stop telling this, but nobody but you answering the forum. no reports, what's going on with betatest. terminus not even fetching his PM for 2 month now (my demand for betatest still in outbox).
what is "far from being stopped entirely"? you sitting lonely in a room for 200 coders, getting visits of your boss once a week?.
[quote=ppmotskula]
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
where is the choice?!?! will skype servers stop accepting 1.2.0.18 registrations, if staff decides to give some beta to the early adopters?
or do you have to stop support (what support?) for 1.2.0.18 when publishing beta? haha!
maybe there isn't enough storage on the fileservers to hold both versions for download...
[edit] stop wait a little. maybe i got you wrong - maybe you're not talking bout 1.2.0.18 at all. you don't want to tell us, you guys have a bugfixed version 1.2.1.01 let's call it, and you're just wondering now wether or not you should release it - do you? [/edit]
i want both!!! and some respect for comunity, some information. some reason why i should stop telling friends "don't use skype, it's dead".
you never stop telling this, but nobody but you answering the forum. no reports, what's going on with betatest. terminus not even fetching his PM for 2 month now (my demand for betatest still in outbox).
what is "far from being stopped entirely"? you sitting lonely in a room for 200 coders, getting visits of your boss once a week?.
[quote=ppmotskula]
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
where is the choice?!?! will skype servers stop accepting 1.2.0.18 registrations, if staff decides to give some beta to the early adopters?
or do you have to stop support (what support?) for 1.2.0.18 when publishing beta? haha!
maybe there isn't enough storage on the fileservers to hold both versions for download...
[edit] stop wait a little. maybe i got you wrong - maybe you're not talking bout 1.2.0.18 at all. you don't want to tell us, you guys have a bugfixed version 1.2.1.01 let's call it, and you're just wondering now wether or not you should release it - do you? [/edit]
i want both!!! and some respect for comunity, some information. some reason why i should stop telling friends "don't use skype, it's dead".
[quote=ppmotskula]
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
[/quote]
Hey, some of us have been here since dirt, and remember working on betas for months. Most of the betas were very good, only a few occasional stinkers.
We always have the ability (or should have) to roll back to this version if something is broke.
As for warranties, and customer support, Ppmotskula, I gotta hand you the gonads of the month award.
Warranties?
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
[/quote]
Hey, some of us have been here since dirt, and remember working on betas for months. Most of the betas were very good, only a few occasional stinkers.
We always have the ability (or should have) to roll back to this version if something is broke.
As for warranties, and customer support, Ppmotskula, I gotta hand you the gonads of the month award.
Warranties?
[quote=sgrayban]
I DID NOT SAY THIS !!!!!!! icebike did. Bloody flippn hell....[/quote]
Dude: Don't get in a shouting match with people that can't even post on a thread. :roll:
No point engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. :lol:
I DID NOT SAY THIS !!!!!!! icebike did. Bloody flippn hell....[/quote]
Dude: Don't get in a shouting match with people that can't even post on a thread. :roll:
No point engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. :lol:
[quote=rsolsn][quote=icebike]
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
[/quote]
What r u saying?........u mean that what i pay for my skype groups is less than the same with windows?
[/quote]
I have no idea what your skype groups are or how you pay for them.
Do you pay anything? Have you ever paid anything?
I thought my comments were quite clear, but for your personal benefit I will restate them:
The market of computer user is STILL 95%+ a windows market. Any hope of profit will appear first in the windows segment. If Ebay can make skype turn a profit for them (doubtful), it will happen among windows users. Therefore the business case requires they concentrate their efforts on windows in hopes of attracting enough windows users to the Paid services to make some return on their investments.
If every linux user IN THE WORLD paid for every pay service skype offers they still wouldn't come within a light-year of earning any return on Ebay's 6billion investment (or what ever it was).
[quote=rsolsn]
i really don't understand u...it's seems to me that u don't want linux grow...
[/quote]
I don't give a ratsass if it grows or not. Its quite fine as it is.
My purpose for posting is to point out the obvious, not to be a chearleader for Linux. Linux can and will stand on its own two feet, and if it needs me to mouth platitudes to "make it grow" then it is in deep doo-doo.
Skype is no longer a project of a few guys working out of someone's garage. Its now a business, and it has to make money or it will die. There aren't enough linux users to offer any hope for a ROI. They have to devote their limited resources to where the money is.
[quote=rsolsn]
[quote=icebike] They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
[/quote]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.[/quote]
What I mean is exactly what I said.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
I would wager this is exactly the opposite of the way skype started.
Did you ever stop to consider the relative market size? Did you even think about revenue stream, and how cheap most linux users are, that they won't buy any paid services?
[/quote]
What r u saying?........u mean that what i pay for my skype groups is less than the same with windows?
[/quote]
I have no idea what your skype groups are or how you pay for them.
Do you pay anything? Have you ever paid anything?
I thought my comments were quite clear, but for your personal benefit I will restate them:
The market of computer user is STILL 95%+ a windows market. Any hope of profit will appear first in the windows segment. If Ebay can make skype turn a profit for them (doubtful), it will happen among windows users. Therefore the business case requires they concentrate their efforts on windows in hopes of attracting enough windows users to the Paid services to make some return on their investments.
If every linux user IN THE WORLD paid for every pay service skype offers they still wouldn't come within a light-year of earning any return on Ebay's 6billion investment (or what ever it was).
[quote=rsolsn]
i really don't understand u...it's seems to me that u don't want linux grow...
[/quote]
I don't give a ratsass if it grows or not. Its quite fine as it is.
My purpose for posting is to point out the obvious, not to be a chearleader for Linux. Linux can and will stand on its own two feet, and if it needs me to mouth platitudes to "make it grow" then it is in deep doo-doo.
Skype is no longer a project of a few guys working out of someone's garage. Its now a business, and it has to make money or it will die. There aren't enough linux users to offer any hope for a ROI. They have to devote their limited resources to where the money is.
[quote=rsolsn]
[quote=icebike] They now desperately have to make it earn money. The linux market is too small to do this.
If and when Linux gets a new version, it will be a backport.
[/quote]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.[/quote]
What I mean is exactly what I said.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
I would wager this is exactly the opposite of the way skype started.
[quote=joerg]i want both!!![/size] and some respect for comunity, some information. some reason why i should stop telling friends "don't use skype, it's dead".[/quote]
Then how bout you starting with a little respect!?
And how bout a little truthfullness?
Dead?
Are you Freakin Kidding? Have you seen the mid day logged in user numbers?
Then how bout you starting with a little respect!?
And how bout a little truthfullness?
Dead?
Are you Freakin Kidding? Have you seen the mid day logged in user numbers?
Yes, I'm cheap. That's why I pay for my Linux distro even though I don't have to. That's why I pay for a subscription to a Linux magazine. That's why I buy SkypeOut credits. That's why I donate to the projects that I think actually deserve it.
My impersonation of sgrayban. Ahem. Waaaaaa!!! Waaaaa!!! Waaaaaa!!!!
My impersonation of sgrayban. Ahem. Waaaaaa!!! Waaaaa!!! Waaaaaa!!!!
[quote=icebike]
I have no idea what your skype groups are or how you pay for them.
[/quote]
no i'm making calls for free:P ...skype out for a group of skype account = skype groups
[quote=icebike]
Do you pay anything? Have you ever paid anything?
[/quote]
icebike i paid u 400€ in the last 3 months with 20 linux client...understand?
[quote=icebike][quote=rsolsn]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.[/quote]
What I mean is exactly what I said.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
[/quote]
ok but if skype starts to develop win/mac/linux version and suddenly the linux one dies and we pay to use ,and we work with it, xcuse us but we're a little bit frustrated.
i perfectly know that 95% desktop pc runs windows....i don't care.
i've selected skype cause 1 year and half ago had a decent linux client and was regularly developed and released now no more.
i would be very happy if the backport would be released regularly.
anyway i really don't care, good luck and bye cause at the end of the credit i will be use another client for my (at this point) 60 client network.
bye
I have no idea what your skype groups are or how you pay for them.
[/quote]
no i'm making calls for free:P ...skype out for a group of skype account = skype groups
[quote=icebike]
Do you pay anything? Have you ever paid anything?
[/quote]
icebike i paid u 400€ in the last 3 months with 20 linux client...understand?
[quote=icebike][quote=rsolsn]
so what u really mean is that isn't true that linux developing is only damned slow but that u don't know if there's a next linux version.[/quote]
What I mean is exactly what I said.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
[/quote]
ok but if skype starts to develop win/mac/linux version and suddenly the linux one dies and we pay to use ,and we work with it, xcuse us but we're a little bit frustrated.
i perfectly know that 95% desktop pc runs windows....i don't care.
i've selected skype cause 1 year and half ago had a decent linux client and was regularly developed and released now no more.
i would be very happy if the backport would be released regularly.
anyway i really don't care, good luck and bye cause at the end of the credit i will be use another client for my (at this point) 60 client network.
bye
[quote=superjimbo]Yes, I'm cheap. That's why I pay for my Linux distro even though I don't have to. That's why I pay for a subscription to a Linux magazine. That's why I buy SkypeOut credits. That's why I donate to the projects that I think actually deserve it.
My impersonation of sgrayban. Ahem. Waaaaaa!!! Waaaaa!!! Waaaaaa!!!![/quote]
Dude -- My statement is for linux users in general. If you pay for your stuff and make donations then you are in the minority. If you have used linux for 8 years like I have and been involved with many popular linux programs you would know this.
And your immature statement that I'm a baby crying was uncalled for. It is a fact that the majority of linux users will not pay for anything since most programs are GPL and free. Its human nature to take what is free and not think about it anymore then that.
I pay for skype out as well. Overall its the cheapest I have found. But it still doesn't explain why skype for linux as a program is not being updated in some fashion for the last 5 months. Surely by now they could have had atleast 1 beta or a release done.
My impersonation of sgrayban. Ahem. Waaaaaa!!! Waaaaa!!! Waaaaaa!!!![/quote]
Dude -- My statement is for linux users in general. If you pay for your stuff and make donations then you are in the minority. If you have used linux for 8 years like I have and been involved with many popular linux programs you would know this.
And your immature statement that I'm a baby crying was uncalled for. It is a fact that the majority of linux users will not pay for anything since most programs are GPL and free. Its human nature to take what is free and not think about it anymore then that.
I pay for skype out as well. Overall its the cheapest I have found. But it still doesn't explain why skype for linux as a program is not being updated in some fashion for the last 5 months. Surely by now they could have had atleast 1 beta or a release done.
[quote=rsolsn]ok but if skype starts to develop win/mac/linux version and suddenly the linux one dies and we pay to use ,and we work with it, xcuse us but we're a little bit frustrated.
i perfectly know that 95% desktop pc runs windows[/quote]
I agree with this one. The lack of anything recent from skype about any release only has me thinking "what if they just drop it and we have paid for a service they had?" What are they going to tell us? Use the windows or mac version? What if we don't even have that choice? Has our money now been taken without a return?
Skype doesn't even put anything on there main website about updates to the linux client at all and the responses I get from them when I ask a question or file a bug report usually begins with "Sorry you are having a problem with skype, but we aren't focusing our resources into linux since our main program is for windows and mac. We don't always program the linux version to match the windows and mac versions." I actually got that response the last email I got from them. How insulting.
And I don't think its 95% of desktop's that uses winshits anymore. Maybe at one time in the 80's and early 90's it did but with Mac and now linux getting into the market I think its alot less.
i perfectly know that 95% desktop pc runs windows[/quote]
I agree with this one. The lack of anything recent from skype about any release only has me thinking "what if they just drop it and we have paid for a service they had?" What are they going to tell us? Use the windows or mac version? What if we don't even have that choice? Has our money now been taken without a return?
Skype doesn't even put anything on there main website about updates to the linux client at all and the responses I get from them when I ask a question or file a bug report usually begins with "Sorry you are having a problem with skype, but we aren't focusing our resources into linux since our main program is for windows and mac. We don't always program the linux version to match the windows and mac versions." I actually got that response the last email I got from them. How insulting.
And I don't think its 95% of desktop's that uses winshits anymore. Maybe at one time in the 80's and early 90's it did but with Mac and now linux getting into the market I think its alot less.
[quote=sgrayban]
And I don't think its 95% of desktop's that uses winshits anymore. Maybe at one time in the 80's and early 90's it did but with Mac and now linux getting into the market I think its alot less.[/quote]
as we're addicted as a warriors against microsoft this is not the place to be involved in a discussion of this kind but i know that once upon a time they had this percentage, now no more.
ps:
and i want to see if after vista's debut will be the same, peraphs as for someone from skype that thinks that linux users don't spend money instead of windows ones.
so or we're poorest than windows ones or we're only tired and we've the solution....and skype "doesn't understand" or doesn't believe in the future of this os....
byebye
And I don't think its 95% of desktop's that uses winshits anymore. Maybe at one time in the 80's and early 90's it did but with Mac and now linux getting into the market I think its alot less.[/quote]
as we're addicted as a warriors against microsoft this is not the place to be involved in a discussion of this kind but i know that once upon a time they had this percentage, now no more.
ps:
and i want to see if after vista's debut will be the same, peraphs as for someone from skype that thinks that linux users don't spend money instead of windows ones.
so or we're poorest than windows ones or we're only tired and we've the solution....and skype "doesn't understand" or doesn't believe in the future of this os....
byebye
[quote=icebike]
The market of computer user is STILL 95%+ a windows market. Any hope of profit will appear first in the windows segment. If Ebay can make skype turn a profit for them (doubtful), it will happen among windows users. Therefore the business case requires they concentrate their efforts on windows in hopes of attracting enough windows users to the Paid services to make some return on their investments.
Skype is no longer a project of a few guys working out of someone's garage. Its now a business, and it has to make money or it will die. There aren't enough linux users to offer any hope for a ROI. They have to devote their limited resources to where the money is.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
I would wager this is exactly the opposite of the way skype started.[/quote]
Well, if this is really the case, Skype will be dead in around 2 to 4 years, maybe even sooner. No doubt about that.
And you know: It's not because 5% of the user base may be gone. It's simply the way Skype structures their business: The started very, very open-minded and tend to act short-sighted today. One may do this if he has a monopoly but Skype is far away from that.
Open-minded means: Be expansive and visionary. Make Skype ubiquitous. Design and market it as "disruptive technology".
Open-minded also means to support a variety of platforms. Linux is one of them.
Focussing at "ringtones" and other sh**t is short-sighted and will never pay back. Kids may be interested in this stuff on their mobile. The average Skype user has tons of mp3's on his computer, he just don't need some kinky ringtone.
Money can be collected through extra services, like Skype-in and Skype-out.
And there will be some kind of lock-in, however the user must never feel repressed by this lock-in. If users are happy, they accept the lock-in, if they are not, they start to rant and make a switch in the long term. Just like us Linux users today.
However, it may be that Skype is aimed as an Ebay-addon, e.g. a communication tool for Ebay-users. In this case, Skype has a kind of niche-market.
Currently I can't see a bright future for Skype. It's a pity - but the world will take it. :wink:
The market of computer user is STILL 95%+ a windows market. Any hope of profit will appear first in the windows segment. If Ebay can make skype turn a profit for them (doubtful), it will happen among windows users. Therefore the business case requires they concentrate their efforts on windows in hopes of attracting enough windows users to the Paid services to make some return on their investments.
Skype is no longer a project of a few guys working out of someone's garage. Its now a business, and it has to make money or it will die. There aren't enough linux users to offer any hope for a ROI. They have to devote their limited resources to where the money is.
Development will be in and for the windows platform first and foremost.
The code will be backported from windows to linux.
That means the linux release will, by definition, always lag the windows release.
I would wager this is exactly the opposite of the way skype started.[/quote]
Well, if this is really the case, Skype will be dead in around 2 to 4 years, maybe even sooner. No doubt about that.
And you know: It's not because 5% of the user base may be gone. It's simply the way Skype structures their business: The started very, very open-minded and tend to act short-sighted today. One may do this if he has a monopoly but Skype is far away from that.
Open-minded means: Be expansive and visionary. Make Skype ubiquitous. Design and market it as "disruptive technology".
Open-minded also means to support a variety of platforms. Linux is one of them.
Focussing at "ringtones" and other sh**t is short-sighted and will never pay back. Kids may be interested in this stuff on their mobile. The average Skype user has tons of mp3's on his computer, he just don't need some kinky ringtone.
Money can be collected through extra services, like Skype-in and Skype-out.
And there will be some kind of lock-in, however the user must never feel repressed by this lock-in. If users are happy, they accept the lock-in, if they are not, they start to rant and make a switch in the long term. Just like us Linux users today.
However, it may be that Skype is aimed as an Ebay-addon, e.g. a communication tool for Ebay-users. In this case, Skype has a kind of niche-market.
Currently I can't see a bright future for Skype. It's a pity - but the world will take it. :wink:
Let's just face it here.
Any good program for Wincraps and Mac will never ever be ported to linux with the same functionality if it is ported. This is why we need people that are good at coding to start revolting against these biased OS like Micro-Gates and Mac-Jobs and start making some serious hurt on them and show that linux has a real honest place as a end-users-desktop.
The money is in windows and mac simply because they can compile it and offer it as a binary and hide all source so that no one can actually work on it. But skype has shown they can do the same in linux so I don't understand why they can't offer the same great version's of window's and mac to us?
I honestly believe skype will simply drop the linux version and not support it and eventually cut it off from even working at some point this year.
Any good program for Wincraps and Mac will never ever be ported to linux with the same functionality if it is ported. This is why we need people that are good at coding to start revolting against these biased OS like Micro-Gates and Mac-Jobs and start making some serious hurt on them and show that linux has a real honest place as a end-users-desktop.
The money is in windows and mac simply because they can compile it and offer it as a binary and hide all source so that no one can actually work on it. But skype has shown they can do the same in linux so I don't understand why they can't offer the same great version's of window's and mac to us?
I honestly believe skype will simply drop the linux version and not support it and eventually cut it off from even working at some point this year.
although this thread shows alarming signs of degenerating into a flamewar, i was glad to see some completely valid points made.
linux users are indeed more tech-savvy (in average) than the mass market of windows users. many of us certainly are seen as the experts in our circles, and our recommendations still do have some influence. however, thanks to the fact that linux has become a lot easier to install and use in the last few years, the average experience level of linux users is quickly dropping towards that of the windows users who still make up the majority of the market, like it or not.
now ebay has paid billions for skype, and obviously they (and their shareholders) want to see a healthy return on the investment. this means that skype has to focus its efforts in the areas where the money is. many of you think that the ringtones business is stupid, but according to some estimates about 10% of the global music market is in ringtones nowadays. so from the business point of view it's not the dumbest idea. and indeed our focus is on windows platform first and foremost, because that's what the vast majority of people are using, like it or not.
my original question was about whether you would prefer to play with the pre-release versions or to demand rock-solid products, customer support, and so on. of course i have no means to stop anyone from posting flames. but in my eyes, the folks who loudly demand that skype must do something, are "customers". and in case the majority of our linux users would rather position themselves as customers, then i'm afraid i cannot persuade the management to make the unreleased versions available to you. but if most of you are willing to accept that all you can do if it doesn't work is to file a bug, then i could at least try.
so please keep your answers to "betas or releases" question coming
P.S. i'm not one of the linux skype developers. i'm just an in-house linux user.
linux users are indeed more tech-savvy (in average) than the mass market of windows users. many of us certainly are seen as the experts in our circles, and our recommendations still do have some influence. however, thanks to the fact that linux has become a lot easier to install and use in the last few years, the average experience level of linux users is quickly dropping towards that of the windows users who still make up the majority of the market, like it or not.
now ebay has paid billions for skype, and obviously they (and their shareholders) want to see a healthy return on the investment. this means that skype has to focus its efforts in the areas where the money is. many of you think that the ringtones business is stupid, but according to some estimates about 10% of the global music market is in ringtones nowadays. so from the business point of view it's not the dumbest idea. and indeed our focus is on windows platform first and foremost, because that's what the vast majority of people are using, like it or not.
my original question was about whether you would prefer to play with the pre-release versions or to demand rock-solid products, customer support, and so on. of course i have no means to stop anyone from posting flames. but in my eyes, the folks who loudly demand that skype must do something, are "customers". and in case the majority of our linux users would rather position themselves as customers, then i'm afraid i cannot persuade the management to make the unreleased versions available to you. but if most of you are willing to accept that all you can do if it doesn't work is to file a bug, then i could at least try.
so please keep your answers to "betas or releases" question coming
P.S. i'm not one of the linux skype developers. i'm just an in-house linux user.
ppmotskula,
I have along with a few others here already stated that we would take anything skype has to offer for a release. Be it a beta or stable release.
As for flamewar's I think the thread is far from that still. Its apparent that there are many die-hard windows/mac users in this thread that still have the gates/jobs complex of OS dictatorship and are defending the monoply of it.
Alot of *real* linux users that use there distro's on a daily basis and not as a *neat* toy to play with have all said that skype should really think about us because in the end linux *will* have a real place in the market as a end-users-desktop.
There is no question that at some point in the near future linux will be a real threat to windows and mac. As you pointed out linux has gotten much easier to use over the years and its only going to get easier. Of course it will always be linux with much more power then either windows or mac will be able to compete with.
I have along with a few others here already stated that we would take anything skype has to offer for a release. Be it a beta or stable release.
As for flamewar's I think the thread is far from that still. Its apparent that there are many die-hard windows/mac users in this thread that still have the gates/jobs complex of OS dictatorship and are defending the monoply of it.
Alot of *real* linux users that use there distro's on a daily basis and not as a *neat* toy to play with have all said that skype should really think about us because in the end linux *will* have a real place in the market as a end-users-desktop.
There is no question that at some point in the near future linux will be a real threat to windows and mac. As you pointed out linux has gotten much easier to use over the years and its only going to get easier. Of course it will always be linux with much more power then either windows or mac will be able to compete with.
hey,
thanks for the "word from the staff" ;-).
I personally switched from Skype (Linux) because the actual version is really crap and way behind of what is up with linux these days. FC5 and Dapper Drake (Ubuntu) are closer to Microsofts Windows (in terms of usuability for the customer) than a lot of people think.
But I also know that a lot of people here in the forums are developers, "geeks" so to speak that really really want to try out the new versions, and since it is labelled as a "beta" the software is "allowed" to have bugs in it. People totally want to use the beta software and post their comments / bug reports in the forums. Some developers even want to hack the code and fix the problem (unfortunately not possible with closed source ;-)). This is with gaim for instance: gaim2 beta has a couple of things, that are in development, a few crashes, but I want to live with that because the features that were added since the last stable version are soooo helpful for me.
Also: I really think that a beta version is totally necessary at this point, Linux people want to play around with it and see where the development is. If it's tooo unstable for daily use, they can easily switch back to the stable version. The users haven't seen a lot the last couple months, only a handful of posts in the forums, no roadmap, no development status.
Or maybe simpler things: What about some nice screenshots of where the devs at, seeing that maybe in the prefs you can select your alsa-device or so? ;-). Something like that would just make the day for a bunch of people!
But we haven't seen anything lately and that's why people are sad (which leads to anger ;-)).
BTW: I spent 200 EUR the last 6 months in Skypeout. Don't tell me linux users won't pay. But why should I support a old-baken client when there are better alternatives out there (now) ?
thanks for the "word from the staff" ;-).
I personally switched from Skype (Linux) because the actual version is really crap and way behind of what is up with linux these days. FC5 and Dapper Drake (Ubuntu) are closer to Microsofts Windows (in terms of usuability for the customer) than a lot of people think.
But I also know that a lot of people here in the forums are developers, "geeks" so to speak that really really want to try out the new versions, and since it is labelled as a "beta" the software is "allowed" to have bugs in it. People totally want to use the beta software and post their comments / bug reports in the forums. Some developers even want to hack the code and fix the problem (unfortunately not possible with closed source ;-)). This is with gaim for instance: gaim2 beta has a couple of things, that are in development, a few crashes, but I want to live with that because the features that were added since the last stable version are soooo helpful for me.
Also: I really think that a beta version is totally necessary at this point, Linux people want to play around with it and see where the development is. If it's tooo unstable for daily use, they can easily switch back to the stable version. The users haven't seen a lot the last couple months, only a handful of posts in the forums, no roadmap, no development status.
Or maybe simpler things: What about some nice screenshots of where the devs at, seeing that maybe in the prefs you can select your alsa-device or so? ;-). Something like that would just make the day for a bunch of people!
But we haven't seen anything lately and that's why people are sad (which leads to anger ;-)).
BTW: I spent 200 EUR the last 6 months in Skypeout. Don't tell me linux users won't pay. But why should I support a old-baken client when there are better alternatives out there (now) ?
[quote=ppmotskula]
so please keep your answers to "betas or releases" question coming
[/quote]
talking for me.
do what u want but do something constantly.
if u give us beta than we will test but then u have to give us back in a reasonably time another beta with some issue solved.
if u give us the stable tell us when; and not, as in other threads somebody in the skype's staff that told us that it will be ready....a day, in the future...when????
we are working as u....we're not playing.
thanks
so please keep your answers to "betas or releases" question coming
[/quote]
talking for me.
do what u want but do something constantly.
if u give us beta than we will test but then u have to give us back in a reasonably time another beta with some issue solved.
if u give us the stable tell us when; and not, as in other threads somebody in the skype's staff that told us that it will be ready....a day, in the future...when????
we are working as u....we're not playing.
thanks
[quote=ppmotskula]Skype is still developing the Linux client. I know our development focus is currently heavily biased towards the Windows client, but the work on Linux is far from being stopped entirely.
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
I would prefer the way how many open source projects do it: You have a STABLE version that is supported and UNSTABLE or TESTING versions that are not supported, but that may be a blessing for people who have a specific hardware problem. I see the big BETA above the video functionality in the windows version - so I cannot understand the secrecy around betas for linux. We want them! And this is not new!
And, last but not least releasing betas gives you the opportunity to get your betas tested and to harvest feedback instead of flames.
The current situation is more then questionable and I do not see Skype showing a lot of activity rather then adding more more or less useful (keyword centralized contacts) bells and whistles to the windows version.
Mark
Now here's a question: would you rather have an out-of-date version that works in most cases on most distributions, or would you prefer getting early access to beta versions that would come without no warranties and no customer support whatsoever?
Let me know, and I try to take the question up internally. Note however that I cannot promise any change in our release policies.[/quote]
I would prefer the way how many open source projects do it: You have a STABLE version that is supported and UNSTABLE or TESTING versions that are not supported, but that may be a blessing for people who have a specific hardware problem. I see the big BETA above the video functionality in the windows version - so I cannot understand the secrecy around betas for linux. We want them! And this is not new!
And, last but not least releasing betas gives you the opportunity to get your betas tested and to harvest feedback instead of flames.
The current situation is more then questionable and I do not see Skype showing a lot of activity rather then adding more more or less useful (keyword centralized contacts) bells and whistles to the windows version.
Mark
I'm a SuSE 10.0 user at home (9.3 at work) and I regret that Skype has decided to let the Linux client lag behind.
My answer to the Skype staffer's question is: release whatever it is that you guys have and let us report the bugs that will appear. BUT DO SOMETHING about the bugs (that means, re-start your Linux release cycle) or we'll just look silly with our bug reports.
As for the comments regarding Linux's vs. Mac's vs. Windows' relative market sizes and potential for revenue, I have a few ponts to make. For starters, there are many noteworthy Linux apps that are closed source and paid (Mathematica comes to mind) and, more to the point, nothing in Linux stops developers from writing proprietary apps that people will pay for (though developers won't be able to use GPL'd libraries AFAIK). That's particularly true in corporate environments where linux is a necessity in many cases.
That said, literally hundreds of millions of people in places like Brazil, India, China, and in many parts of Europe are either moving to Linux or using it simply because they haven't had access to anything else. To give a practical example, the Brazilian government subsidizes the sale computers to first-time buyers if they're equipped with an open source OS. That's not an ideological position though - it makes the machines cheaper while offering all features (Windows Starter Edition is a seriously crippled OS).
Another example, many small businesses that used pirated copies of Windows are being forced to either buy it from Microsoft or migrate to a cheaper alternative thanks to stronger enforcement of copyright laws. Again, that's the case in Brazil, and it's growing trend here.
Skype and eBay should be paying attention to all those customers. They'll be the ones looking for cheaper call rates (even in Intl. calls as many of them have relatives living abroad in richer parts of the world) and for bargains on local eBay sites (eBay's present in India, China and in Latin America through its MercadoLivre associate. A mobile phone is sold every 30 seconds on MercadoLivre, or something like that).
The potential for revenue in developing for Linux is greater than in doing so for the Mac, for instance. At the current asking price, Apple sells maybe a handful of Macs in Brazil. I don't know about other countries, but only idiots pay US$1,200 for a Mac Mini G4 in the Brazilian market. An iMac G5 costs about US$4,500 (I'm not kidding, check Brazilian e-commerce sites!). I'm not aware of large Mac user bases in most countries except the U.S. and maybe Canada, regardless of that platform's merits (and there are some though not as many as the Mac people say, I was a Mac user until 2001 and I can tell you much of what people say about the Mac are attempts at self-justification for having paid so much more for a slightly outdated computer).
Also, let's not forget us "regular" Linux users who know our stuff and feel sort of robbed of our money by Skype. I should know, I've got about 25 euros in SkypeOut credits I can't use, plus I bought a Brazilian SkypeIn number.
It's not so bad for me, I got SkypeIn thinking about Netgear's wi-fi phone (no need for the PC). But the lack of support for Linux has meant that I haven't used up my credits and won't be buying any until I can at least use my USB phone with ALSA.
All this is just to say that 1. there is a business case for developing Skype for Linux, and 2. Skype is at risk if it keeps abandoning its customers like it did with us. And the risk is even greater if they abandon growth markets - like Linux...
Let's see those betas and PLEASE, ALSA support!!!
My answer to the Skype staffer's question is: release whatever it is that you guys have and let us report the bugs that will appear. BUT DO SOMETHING about the bugs (that means, re-start your Linux release cycle) or we'll just look silly with our bug reports.
As for the comments regarding Linux's vs. Mac's vs. Windows' relative market sizes and potential for revenue, I have a few ponts to make. For starters, there are many noteworthy Linux apps that are closed source and paid (Mathematica comes to mind) and, more to the point, nothing in Linux stops developers from writing proprietary apps that people will pay for (though developers won't be able to use GPL'd libraries AFAIK). That's particularly true in corporate environments where linux is a necessity in many cases.
That said, literally hundreds of millions of people in places like Brazil, India, China, and in many parts of Europe are either moving to Linux or using it simply because they haven't had access to anything else. To give a practical example, the Brazilian government subsidizes the sale computers to first-time buyers if they're equipped with an open source OS. That's not an ideological position though - it makes the machines cheaper while offering all features (Windows Starter Edition is a seriously crippled OS).
Another example, many small businesses that used pirated copies of Windows are being forced to either buy it from Microsoft or migrate to a cheaper alternative thanks to stronger enforcement of copyright laws. Again, that's the case in Brazil, and it's growing trend here.
Skype and eBay should be paying attention to all those customers. They'll be the ones looking for cheaper call rates (even in Intl. calls as many of them have relatives living abroad in richer parts of the world) and for bargains on local eBay sites (eBay's present in India, China and in Latin America through its MercadoLivre associate. A mobile phone is sold every 30 seconds on MercadoLivre, or something like that).
The potential for revenue in developing for Linux is greater than in doing so for the Mac, for instance. At the current asking price, Apple sells maybe a handful of Macs in Brazil. I don't know about other countries, but only idiots pay US$1,200 for a Mac Mini G4 in the Brazilian market. An iMac G5 costs about US$4,500 (I'm not kidding, check Brazilian e-commerce sites!). I'm not aware of large Mac user bases in most countries except the U.S. and maybe Canada, regardless of that platform's merits (and there are some though not as many as the Mac people say, I was a Mac user until 2001 and I can tell you much of what people say about the Mac are attempts at self-justification for having paid so much more for a slightly outdated computer).
Also, let's not forget us "regular" Linux users who know our stuff and feel sort of robbed of our money by Skype. I should know, I've got about 25 euros in SkypeOut credits I can't use, plus I bought a Brazilian SkypeIn number.
It's not so bad for me, I got SkypeIn thinking about Netgear's wi-fi phone (no need for the PC). But the lack of support for Linux has meant that I haven't used up my credits and won't be buying any until I can at least use my USB phone with ALSA.
All this is just to say that 1. there is a business case for developing Skype for Linux, and 2. Skype is at risk if it keeps abandoning its customers like it did with us. And the risk is even greater if they abandon growth markets - like Linux...
Let's see those betas and PLEASE, ALSA support!!!
First off I'd like to say "damnnnnnnnn" and right on the money.
[quote=Livino-lost the password!]That said, literally hundreds of millions of people in places like Brazil, India, China, and in many parts of Europe are either moving to Linux or using it simply because they haven't had access to anything else. To give a practical example, the Brazilian government subsidizes the sale computers to first-time buyers if they're equipped with an open source OS. That's not an ideological position though - it makes the machines cheaper while offering all features (Windows Starter Edition is a seriously crippled OS).[/quote]
The French Gov. tossed out Microsoft and went to Linux. So did Germany. HUGE hint there when entire governments get rid of Microsoft.
NASA uses linux and the NJPL(NASA Jet Propulsion Labs) even went to linux specifically the Mandriva distro.
I can name many other places that tossed out Microsoft and Mac and went to something stable and less of a security risk.
Its beyond me as why *ANY* company wants to invest in a virus and high security risk OS such as Microsoft. Microsoft will NOT ever become what linux is now and I can see in the future that the only way Microsoft will stay alive is offering *bribes* to companies to keep offering programs that only support Windows. That is there only interest. Its the only way they will stay in the market in any sense of that word.
If companies like Skype and YAHOO simply quit offering window's only programs you watch what Microsoft will do. They will cry like little babies and complain like they always have.
When the French Gov. tossed out Microsoft they even tried to bribe them with offering unlimited licenses for free along with a big discount on support. This was in the news just a few years ago. Many other Governments are incouraging users to move to linux especially in the EU. Others will follow.
Think about that for awhile Skype office people.
The furture is linux and Kernel Penguin (pun intended) is coming to rule.
[quote=Livino-lost the password!]That said, literally hundreds of millions of people in places like Brazil, India, China, and in many parts of Europe are either moving to Linux or using it simply because they haven't had access to anything else. To give a practical example, the Brazilian government subsidizes the sale computers to first-time buyers if they're equipped with an open source OS. That's not an ideological position though - it makes the machines cheaper while offering all features (Windows Starter Edition is a seriously crippled OS).[/quote]
The French Gov. tossed out Microsoft and went to Linux. So did Germany. HUGE hint there when entire governments get rid of Microsoft.
NASA uses linux and the NJPL(NASA Jet Propulsion Labs) even went to linux specifically the Mandriva distro.
I can name many other places that tossed out Microsoft and Mac and went to something stable and less of a security risk.
Its beyond me as why *ANY* company wants to invest in a virus and high security risk OS such as Microsoft. Microsoft will NOT ever become what linux is now and I can see in the future that the only way Microsoft will stay alive is offering *bribes* to companies to keep offering programs that only support Windows. That is there only interest. Its the only way they will stay in the market in any sense of that word.
If companies like Skype and YAHOO simply quit offering window's only programs you watch what Microsoft will do. They will cry like little babies and complain like they always have.
When the French Gov. tossed out Microsoft they even tried to bribe them with offering unlimited licenses for free along with a big discount on support. This was in the news just a few years ago. Many other Governments are incouraging users to move to linux especially in the EU. Others will follow.
Think about that for awhile Skype office people.
The furture is linux and Kernel Penguin (pun intended) is coming to rule.
Given that Skype have produced Linux ports, then Skype must have one or more developers who specialise in Linux? What have these (or this?) developer(s) been doing for the last 6 months? Some of the bugs reported (like the Debian package dependency) are silly, very inconvenient bugs but could be fixed in a couple of hours by Skype. You have a few Billion invested into you and you can't find a couple of hours to fix such a prominent bug?! Even the ALSA port should not take an experienced linux developer much time at all.
Something doesn't add up. Seems to me that the place has gone crazy (as typically happens when big money rolls in the door of a previously small organisation) and that "technical" decisions are now made by brain dead comittee. Common sense takes a backseat to all sorts of commercial and political barrows being pushed by people who have power, but no appreciation or motivation towards technical issues.
Something doesn't add up. Seems to me that the place has gone crazy (as typically happens when big money rolls in the door of a previously small organisation) and that "technical" decisions are now made by brain dead comittee. Common sense takes a backseat to all sorts of commercial and political barrows being pushed by people who have power, but no appreciation or motivation towards technical issues.
[quote=markbl]
Something doesn't add up. Seems to me that the place has gone crazy (as typically happens when big money rolls in the door of a previously small organisation) and that "technical" decisions are now made by brain dead comittee. Common sense takes a backseat to all sorts of commercial and political barrows being pushed by people who have power, but no appreciation or motivation towards technical issues.[/quote]
I agree and I see this as a sad tendency in our "free market" economy: People and companies with good intent and who have been offering great services or goods become puppets on the strings of the stockmarket and are asked to hail the shareholder value philosophy rather then serving the customers.
I see a tendency towards Linux in governments and organisations as well, but the question is: Would NASA buy ringtones ?
Something doesn't add up. Seems to me that the place has gone crazy (as typically happens when big money rolls in the door of a previously small organisation) and that "technical" decisions are now made by brain dead comittee. Common sense takes a backseat to all sorts of commercial and political barrows being pushed by people who have power, but no appreciation or motivation towards technical issues.[/quote]
I agree and I see this as a sad tendency in our "free market" economy: People and companies with good intent and who have been offering great services or goods become puppets on the strings of the stockmarket and are asked to hail the shareholder value philosophy rather then serving the customers.
I see a tendency towards Linux in governments and organisations as well, but the question is: Would NASA buy ringtones ?
[quote=mark_dammer]I see a tendency towards Linux in governments and organisations as well, but the question is: Would NASA buy ringtones ?[/quote]
Ringtons are the internet's cheap corner whore. You can pay 99 cents for a quickie and come back for more when you need a fix again. Its a huge turn-over and you can make fast money.
That's it, lets make fast money and provide cheap toys and forget about anything that is *useful* for the general public.
Ringtons are the internet's cheap corner whore. You can pay 99 cents for a quickie and come back for more when you need a fix again. Its a huge turn-over and you can make fast money.
That's it, lets make fast money and provide cheap toys and forget about anything that is *useful* for the general public.
Well if ebay want their money back, they should really think about linux users. If they are 5%, that means 5% less income with unsatisfied clients. Linux user pay too. I already spent some 30eur on telephoning with skype. Now I'm going to Wengo which works (and its opensource stuff means lotsa people might get involved in development). Bye and happy money making.
To answer the question i would MUCH prefer to have betas available.
Im also trying Wengo and other solutions and stopped using Skype and SkypeOut for now.
If gaim -vv gets released, if Amsn gets stable, if Wengophone keeps doing a good job, Skype might just loose a lot of Linux users and a lot of money.
I understand the need of beeing on top in the windows market. But Linux is growing, big time. Linux users are not readya to pay for a software, but like any Windows user they will pay for a service. You want to make money with us ? Give us some quality software, with the same features for every platform. You would make a lot of friends.
Sincerly.
Im also trying Wengo and other solutions and stopped using Skype and SkypeOut for now.
If gaim -vv gets released, if Amsn gets stable, if Wengophone keeps doing a good job, Skype might just loose a lot of Linux users and a lot of money.
I understand the need of beeing on top in the windows market. But Linux is growing, big time. Linux users are not readya to pay for a software, but like any Windows user they will pay for a service. You want to make money with us ? Give us some quality software, with the same features for every platform. You would make a lot of friends.
Sincerly.
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