http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con...ign_id=rss_tech
It will inform the chinese govt on any users using banned words like democracy and buddha, then the Chinese government will kill them and put them in a shallow grave.
SHAME ON SKYPE.
LETS BOYCOTT ALL SKYPE SERVICES THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY LIKE SKYPE OUT CREDITS ,SKYPE PHOEN NUMBERS,VOICEMAIL..
LETS NOT BUY SKYPE CERTIFIED PRODUCTS.
LETS KEEP USING THEIR SOFTWARE FREE AND SKYPE ALL OUR CONTACTS WITH WHAT THEY ARE DOING IN CHINA.
LETS USE SKYPE TO SPREAD THE MESSAGE THAT WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG .
LET THEM KNOW THE SKYPE COMMUNITY IS AGAINST IT.
Full Version: Skype kills chinese people
[quote=sandramc1]SHAME ON SKYPE.
LETS BOYCOTT ALL SKYPE SERVICES THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY LIKE SKYPE OUT CREDITS ,SKYPE PHOEN NUMBERS,VOICEMAIL..
LETS NOT BUY SKYPE CERTIFIED PRODUCTS.[/quote]
You can spread the word more often when you also use SkypeOut, SkypeIn and Voicemail.........
Ike
LETS BOYCOTT ALL SKYPE SERVICES THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY LIKE SKYPE OUT CREDITS ,SKYPE PHOEN NUMBERS,VOICEMAIL..
LETS NOT BUY SKYPE CERTIFIED PRODUCTS.[/quote]
You can spread the word more often when you also use SkypeOut, SkypeIn and Voicemail.........
Ike
but then you give them money and we don't want to do that and remember on e-bay people sell every item for 1cent but make your profit on the postage becvause e-bay doesn't get a cut of it. :?
let's hurt skype/ebay economically.
let's hurt skype/ebay economically.
[quote=sandramc1]let's hurt skype/ebay economically.[/quote]
And cause the unemployment of all those people working for them. What a responsibility you take.
Ike
And cause the unemployment of all those people working for them. What a responsibility you take.
Ike
Unemployment or the death of independent thinkers under an oppresive regime? Maybe a lesser of two evils in here somewhere?
muppetmaster is right and remember you can always get another job and morally why would you want to work for Skype anyway?
[quote=sandramc1]muppetmaster is right and remember you can always get another job and morally why would you want to work for Skype anyway?[/quote]
Skype sold out, they are now a typical NASDAQ listed company where all that matters is profit. Skype/eBay are no different than the majority of such corporations, the key is that Skype is no longer the 'renegade' it was perceived as pre-acquisition.
Given the P2P nature of Skype, anyone who is using Skype (me included) is supporting such a corporate ethos by directly accepting the EULA that allows Skype/eBay to use your network bandwidth/computing resources to facilitate their commericial venture. Now this facilitation extends to supporting the Chinese government in closing avenues for free speech, and indeed possibly endangering indviduals.
Skype sold out, they are now a typical NASDAQ listed company where all that matters is profit. Skype/eBay are no different than the majority of such corporations, the key is that Skype is no longer the 'renegade' it was perceived as pre-acquisition.
Given the P2P nature of Skype, anyone who is using Skype (me included) is supporting such a corporate ethos by directly accepting the EULA that allows Skype/eBay to use your network bandwidth/computing resources to facilitate their commericial venture. Now this facilitation extends to supporting the Chinese government in closing avenues for free speech, and indeed possibly endangering indviduals.
As the article correctly states, the growth of information and its complexity is bound to swamp the censors. The inefficiencies being created are restricting China's ability to to emerge as a modern society.
More and more of the stuff that China is trying to censor is going to slip through. In part this will happen just because there is more and more stuff to censor, but its also due to the increasing complexity (it's not just text). They claim they're catching 90% of what they want to catch, but who's to say that's not a number created by bureaucrats merely to justify their existence. This whole censorship program has the markings of a bureaucratic game.
You have to figure that the Chinese people are going to figure out how to disguise their communication. Frankly, I'd be surprised if the censors are catching any real treasonous traffic at all, despite all their efforts. They're just catching nonsensical things like the word "democracy". That's what makes me think it's just a bureaucratic issue. Skype has a filter in its IM that kills the word "Taiwan". So what! Don't you think there's an underground code that translates that into "Lake Wobegon" or something? Foiling these bureaucrats should be child's play for anyone who's actually trying.
Why do you think there's no fuss in the West when big companies like Yahoo, Google, and eBay comply with these stupid Chinese laws?....... because everyone knows that they're easily foiled, they can only hurt China, and they can't last anyway.
Besides, if it weren't Skype providing communication services, it would be somebody else.... undoubtedly without encryption. Just think how the principles of freedom and democracy are enabled by this technology. Pity the Chinese idiots who signed that agreement to allow Skype in at all! If you were a Chinese freedom fighter, would you use Skype or Yahoo? Not a tough choice.
More and more of the stuff that China is trying to censor is going to slip through. In part this will happen just because there is more and more stuff to censor, but its also due to the increasing complexity (it's not just text). They claim they're catching 90% of what they want to catch, but who's to say that's not a number created by bureaucrats merely to justify their existence. This whole censorship program has the markings of a bureaucratic game.
You have to figure that the Chinese people are going to figure out how to disguise their communication. Frankly, I'd be surprised if the censors are catching any real treasonous traffic at all, despite all their efforts. They're just catching nonsensical things like the word "democracy". That's what makes me think it's just a bureaucratic issue. Skype has a filter in its IM that kills the word "Taiwan". So what! Don't you think there's an underground code that translates that into "Lake Wobegon" or something? Foiling these bureaucrats should be child's play for anyone who's actually trying.
Why do you think there's no fuss in the West when big companies like Yahoo, Google, and eBay comply with these stupid Chinese laws?....... because everyone knows that they're easily foiled, they can only hurt China, and they can't last anyway.
Besides, if it weren't Skype providing communication services, it would be somebody else.... undoubtedly without encryption. Just think how the principles of freedom and democracy are enabled by this technology. Pity the Chinese idiots who signed that agreement to allow Skype in at all! If you were a Chinese freedom fighter, would you use Skype or Yahoo? Not a tough choice.
I still have to see the first real "evidence" that they already do this censorship or filtering of words.
I know a Skype user who uses the latest Chinese Skype version (with some additional Tab for a local Skype Partner) and he did not notice any filtering yet.
But i agree it is a pity that "if they agreed to do it" that they did it! Shame ... but business is business :evil:
I lived in a Northern African Country during some years, and i also refrained from talking politics with the locals ... because the country is a disguised dictature! I needed to do a job and earn my living!
I know a Skype user who uses the latest Chinese Skype version (with some additional Tab for a local Skype Partner) and he did not notice any filtering yet.
But i agree it is a pity that "if they agreed to do it" that they did it! Shame ... but business is business :evil:
I lived in a Northern African Country during some years, and i also refrained from talking politics with the locals ... because the country is a disguised dictature! I needed to do a job and earn my living!
I want to understand one thing: if SkyPe chat is encrypted, how is it possible to filter specific words like "democracy"?
QUOTE(RFK)
I want to understand one thing: if SkyPe chat is encrypted, how is it possible to filter specific words like "democracy"?
They would presumably filter it at the client. Skype would have to change the mechanism by which it does encryption to do it any other way.
I have a considerable number of friends in China. They always talk with me through Skype because, unlike other IM software, skype is supposed to be encrypted.
BUT NOW SKYPE IS GETTING READY TO SELL THEM TO CHINESE CENSORS!
As RFK and granger mentioned above, how can the filtering be realized if all conversation is still encrypted?
Or even worse: WILL CHINESE GOVERNMENT RECEIVE A "KEY" THAT CAN DECRYPT ALL SKYPE TRANSMSSION BETEEN CHINA AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES?
And finally the key question: Is there anyway Chinese government can bug audio/text conversation and accurately identify participants?
Hope Skype will not become the second HK Yahoo
'helped jail China writer'[/b]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-paci...fic/4221538.stm
BUT NOW SKYPE IS GETTING READY TO SELL THEM TO CHINESE CENSORS!
As RFK and granger mentioned above, how can the filtering be realized if all conversation is still encrypted?
Or even worse: WILL CHINESE GOVERNMENT RECEIVE A "KEY" THAT CAN DECRYPT ALL SKYPE TRANSMSSION BETEEN CHINA AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES?
And finally the key question: Is there anyway Chinese government can bug audio/text conversation and accurately identify participants?
Hope Skype will not become the second HK Yahoo
'helped jail China writer'[/b]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-paci...fic/4221538.stm
QUOTE(lexingtonShoot)
BUT NOW SKYPE IS GETTING READY TO SELL THEM TO CHINESE CENSORS!
As RFK and granger mentioned above, how can the filtering be realized if all conversation is still encrypted?
Or even worse: WILL CHINESE GOVERNMENT RECEIVE A "KEY" THAT CAN DECRYPT ALL SKYPE TRANSMSSION BETEEN CHINA AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES?
And finally the key question: Is there anyway Chinese government can bug audio/text conversation and accurately identify participants?
As RFK and granger mentioned above, how can the filtering be realized if all conversation is still encrypted?
Or even worse: WILL CHINESE GOVERNMENT RECEIVE A "KEY" THAT CAN DECRYPT ALL SKYPE TRANSMSSION BETEEN CHINA AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES?
And finally the key question: Is there anyway Chinese government can bug audio/text conversation and accurately identify participants?
Your fears are probably unwarranted, or at least most of them. I would bet that Skype would reveal who is communicating with whom if the Chinese government asked, because that info should be readily available. However, decrypted content should be impossible for Skype to recover. They can't pass along to Chinese authorities what they don't have. That's apparently what got Yahoo in trouble.... they were forced to reveal things that they DID have. Therefore, the lesson to be learned is don't use Yahoo or any other carrier without encryption. Also, remember that if you're using SkypeIN/OUT, your voice conversation is encrypted and unencrypted at the point of intersection with the PSTN. They could easily put a phone tap at that location.
As I understand it, Skype's filter is on words and phrases (in IM only) before is encrypted (and after it is decrypted). As such, it should be easy for witty Chinamen to disguise the real meaning of their unencrypted text. I don't believe it is stored anywhere except in the client, so you might want to turn off logged chats.
yes, garnet_stone is correct.
- jaan
edit: it was pointed out to me that i missed this sentence above: "I would bet that Skype would reveal who is communicating with whom if the Chinese government asked, because that info should be readily available" -- this is *not* correct, because skype to skype communications are fully p2p and as such do not touch our servers.
- jaan
edit: it was pointed out to me that i missed this sentence above: "I would bet that Skype would reveal who is communicating with whom if the Chinese government asked, because that info should be readily available" -- this is *not* correct, because skype to skype communications are fully p2p and as such do not touch our servers.
[quote=Jaan][quote=garnet_stone]As I understand it, Skype's filter is on words and phrases (in IM only) before is encrypted (and after it is decrypted). As such, it should be easy for witty Chinamen to disguise the real meaning of their unencrypted text. I don't believe it is stored anywhere except in the client, so you might want to turn off logged chats.[/quote]yes, garnet_stone is correct. [/quote] :evil: well at least it is a confirmation of what has been told by the Newspaper, but Garnet Stone is right ... clever people can use "coded words" to pass the message, and anyway ... they will not filter spoken words! :lol: although, it is NOT impossible with the technology of voice recognition today! 
The whole thing is overblown and exaggerated imho and I wish this conversation would more or less stop here:
1. China may NOT the terrible repressive dictatorship some people outside (eg in renegade china or her allies) like to make out. Yes, sometimes there has been repression, but likely that saved millions of other lives. That may not make it right, but the logic is compelling. Would Tianenmin Square advocay of US-style 'democracy' have helped China? We'd have one billion homeless, unemployed hungry drug adicts on the street if China was USA. Yes, you can stop reading now, but I have to say it.
2. And perhaps more important for this subject: of course any filtering would be done in the client (and that is tested and afaik verified some filtering eg message does not arrive if containing obvious illegal content) because skype cannot do it any other way, by necessity of architecture Skype is encrypted.
3. Think about that - and agree with most of what was said eg by Garnet above - but I'd add that the USA is far worse and very repressive regime in claiming freedom, democracy and human rights, while being a terrorist dictatorship helping Ben London sorry Laden of Al-CIAda to errode all civil liberties let alone basic human rights.
Hence, the US regime tries to stop all kinds of communications and spy on its own citizens. And, since BEFORE 911. If you don't know that, you need to read the news a bit more. Under all the officially sanctioned waffle, find those in power who have spoken out in testimony about this. This is of course what the US dictatorship neo-con mafia 'crazies' wants to achieve, because they know full well that terrorists use plain text communications on Hotmail (admitted by the FBI) and not codes or encryption since it attracts attention. And Skype encryption is NOT strong enough for a terrorist or a 'freedom fighter'.
But anyway, and I don't care much of what you may think of my 'political' assessment of what I perceive to be reality - maybe you can agree with a logical/technical assessment: Skype has done well not to endanger anyone yes not a single individual - unlike Yahoo - and if you think on this open public bulletin board airing this fact or the opposite either way more and more will help, it won't - it'll only draw too much attention and then filtering and blocking of Skype (yes possible, at least in great part) by the Great Satan as well as the lesser Satans and even eventually the Angels.
So, agreeing much with Muppetmaster about Skype no longer being renegade and hence in danger of losing much of it's user base (not because of that but more as a resulting factor of not caring about community and forgetting that Customer is King), however, I have to give them full marks for finding a good solution and also full marks to the authorities for agreeing to it, knowing full well, as above explained for the Americans. The difference is, the Chinese are effective and really want to avoid chaos, the Americans are ineffective but are bent on creating chaos.
Now of course, I guess this post won't end here and so maybe it should be locked by our good friend Adam! Or it goes on forever and in circles. But it would be nice to agree for once that Skype has NOT done wrong here.
1. China may NOT the terrible repressive dictatorship some people outside (eg in renegade china or her allies) like to make out. Yes, sometimes there has been repression, but likely that saved millions of other lives. That may not make it right, but the logic is compelling. Would Tianenmin Square advocay of US-style 'democracy' have helped China? We'd have one billion homeless, unemployed hungry drug adicts on the street if China was USA. Yes, you can stop reading now, but I have to say it.
2. And perhaps more important for this subject: of course any filtering would be done in the client (and that is tested and afaik verified some filtering eg message does not arrive if containing obvious illegal content) because skype cannot do it any other way, by necessity of architecture Skype is encrypted.
3. Think about that - and agree with most of what was said eg by Garnet above - but I'd add that the USA is far worse and very repressive regime in claiming freedom, democracy and human rights, while being a terrorist dictatorship helping Ben London sorry Laden of Al-CIAda to errode all civil liberties let alone basic human rights.
Hence, the US regime tries to stop all kinds of communications and spy on its own citizens. And, since BEFORE 911. If you don't know that, you need to read the news a bit more. Under all the officially sanctioned waffle, find those in power who have spoken out in testimony about this. This is of course what the US dictatorship neo-con mafia 'crazies' wants to achieve, because they know full well that terrorists use plain text communications on Hotmail (admitted by the FBI) and not codes or encryption since it attracts attention. And Skype encryption is NOT strong enough for a terrorist or a 'freedom fighter'.
But anyway, and I don't care much of what you may think of my 'political' assessment of what I perceive to be reality - maybe you can agree with a logical/technical assessment: Skype has done well not to endanger anyone yes not a single individual - unlike Yahoo - and if you think on this open public bulletin board airing this fact or the opposite either way more and more will help, it won't - it'll only draw too much attention and then filtering and blocking of Skype (yes possible, at least in great part) by the Great Satan as well as the lesser Satans and even eventually the Angels.
So, agreeing much with Muppetmaster about Skype no longer being renegade and hence in danger of losing much of it's user base (not because of that but more as a resulting factor of not caring about community and forgetting that Customer is King), however, I have to give them full marks for finding a good solution and also full marks to the authorities for agreeing to it, knowing full well, as above explained for the Americans. The difference is, the Chinese are effective and really want to avoid chaos, the Americans are ineffective but are bent on creating chaos.
Now of course, I guess this post won't end here and so maybe it should be locked by our good friend Adam! Or it goes on forever and in circles. But it would be nice to agree for once that Skype has NOT done wrong here.
I really wouldn't know what Skype has done...
[quote]China may NOT the terrible repressive dictatorship some people outside (eg in renegade china or her allies) like to make out. [/quote]
...but the above is totally out of order!
I would try to be more sensitive when expressing such an opinion, as the number of official death penalties in China is more than all other countries around the world combined. I have not the knowledge to say anything about what Skype has done and can therefore not form an opinion on that. It seems somewhat unfair to make such a blunt, highly political and uninformed statement and then wish that this thread would be finished. Your statements about the US, I can only agree with. When it comes to China, I advise you to read the following:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/deliver/document/15264.html
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/world/china/
If I would have to chose between a jobs and human lives, I wouldn't need any time to make up my mind. Please be kind to your fellow earthlings...
[quote]China may NOT the terrible repressive dictatorship some people outside (eg in renegade china or her allies) like to make out. [/quote]
...but the above is totally out of order!
I would try to be more sensitive when expressing such an opinion, as the number of official death penalties in China is more than all other countries around the world combined. I have not the knowledge to say anything about what Skype has done and can therefore not form an opinion on that. It seems somewhat unfair to make such a blunt, highly political and uninformed statement and then wish that this thread would be finished. Your statements about the US, I can only agree with. When it comes to China, I advise you to read the following:
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/deliver/document/15264.html
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/world/china/
If I would have to chose between a jobs and human lives, I wouldn't need any time to make up my mind. Please be kind to your fellow earthlings...
[quote=dwerfius]the number of official death penalties in China is more than all other countries around the world combined. [/quote]
I do not disagree with you! (you missed the word MAY, i am inviting the consideration, the possibility). However, one should keep mathematics in mind: many countries (military dictatorships such as Sudan) don't record those records: there are huge numbers of executions there, that never make the press, and 6 million killed in almost-continuous wars by Arabs since 1950's till now. So, don't forget China has 1.3 billion people - but apparently does not hide the statistics since they are legislated in law (as in the US).
I'm neither in favour nor against the death penalty. That's another issue and it depends on many factors not least of which is the justice system (or injustice system).
But your conclusion I agree with and most if not all of the rest (Skype has NOT chosen jobs above lives), so I don't think that is such a bad response to a highly political item which successfully tested the Skype forum filtering as non-existant.
I do not disagree with you! (you missed the word MAY, i am inviting the consideration, the possibility). However, one should keep mathematics in mind: many countries (military dictatorships such as Sudan) don't record those records: there are huge numbers of executions there, that never make the press, and 6 million killed in almost-continuous wars by Arabs since 1950's till now. So, don't forget China has 1.3 billion people - but apparently does not hide the statistics since they are legislated in law (as in the US).
I'm neither in favour nor against the death penalty. That's another issue and it depends on many factors not least of which is the justice system (or injustice system).
But your conclusion I agree with and most if not all of the rest (Skype has NOT chosen jobs above lives), so I don't think that is such a bad response to a highly political item which successfully tested the Skype forum filtering as non-existant.
If there's anything we should boycott because of all the killing and human rights violations it is the Chinese products made under the watchful eye of a dictatorial government. I am convinced that ALL Chinese companies collaborate much more than Microsoft or Skype.
Where are the American partriots in defense of the Constitution? C'mon, let's hear it! And even by International law: Bush to the Hague! In the US, people ROT on death row staring at the chair so to speak and are killed in inhumane ways. Much better to be shot quickly by a firing squad, provided of course, you deserve to be. Probably the US is far too lax and misses all the criminals, since after all they sit in highest positions of power.
[quote=Semophile]If there's anything we should boycott because of all the killing and human rights violations it is the Chinese products made under the watchful eye of a dictatorial government. I am convinced that ALL Chinese companies collaborate much more than Microsoft or Skype.[/quote]Rubbish, we should boycot McDonalds and Coca Cola, they kill far more people - hey far more Americans (since Americans are worth more than others) than anything else LOL
Thread is becoming TOO polical in my opinion!
This is a Skype discussion forum! Of course, we have to discuss the impact of political decisions on the "behaviour" of Skype.
But i don't think we should begin to compare political systems and regimes!
But ok, still interesting to read policital opinions :lol:
This is a Skype discussion forum! Of course, we have to discuss the impact of political decisions on the "behaviour" of Skype.
But i don't think we should begin to compare political systems and regimes!
But ok, still interesting to read policital opinions :lol:
Where is the censor? ADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[quote=Jean Mercier]Thread is becoming TOO polical in my opinion!
This is a Skype discussion forum! Of course, we have to discuss the impact of political decisions on the "behaviour" of Skype.
But i don't think we should begin to compare political systems and regimes!
But ok, still interesting to read policital opinions :lol:[/quote]Your signature is nice and political Jean LOL and it's a good idea, then no one would blame the Belgians for everything.
This is a Skype discussion forum! Of course, we have to discuss the impact of political decisions on the "behaviour" of Skype.
But i don't think we should begin to compare political systems and regimes!
But ok, still interesting to read policital opinions :lol:[/quote]Your signature is nice and political Jean LOL and it's a good idea, then no one would blame the Belgians for everything.
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