From online viral take-up to cheesy on the street panhandling. Is Skype desperate for growth?
[quote=Skype]But on the other hand it made Skype feel somehow like a cheap call provider such as OneTel. I just hope that instead it is being used to spread the word, get people on board using what they understand (simple telephone calls) and at the same time kick in more exciting services and business propositions to the end user.[/quote]
Source
Skype definately has not gone past much more than 4 Million on-line, and it took longer than most people expected to get through that number.
Full Version: Skype Marketing on the Street (First-Time Ever?)
yawn....
[quote=muppetblaster]yawn....[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
[quote=muppetmaster]Skype definately has not gone past much more than 4 Million on-line, and it took longer than most people expected to get through that number.[/quote]
Give me the name of the voip service other than skype which has had more than 4 million users online at once? Enough said.
Give me the name of the voip service other than skype which has had more than 4 million users online at once? Enough said.
other VOIP services don't require you to stay online to use them.
[quote] Enough said.[/quote]
[quote] Enough said.
[/quote]
[quote=yumfart][quote=muppetmaster]Skype definately has not gone past much more than 4 Million on-line, and it took longer than most people expected to get through that number.[/quote]
Give me the name of the voip service other than skype which has had more than 4 million users online at once? Enough said.[/quote]
You just set yourself up all the time, do you enjoy it?
YahooBB! Japan, based on SIP, has more subscribers online simultaneously than that of Skype. Enough said.
[quote=Point]Yahoo Japan
23 September 2005
Yahoo Japan is a Joint Venture between the Softbank group and Yahoo. As on 31 Dec 2001, Softbank had a 66% stake in the Joint Venture, with Yahoo holding the rest. The group markets one of Japan’s largest Internet portals under the name, Yahoo Japan.
The total number of Yahoo Japan VoIP subscribers increased from 4,630,000 at the end of June 2005 to 4,674,000 at the end of July 2005.
[b]On 25 April 2002, Yahoo Japan launched ‘BB Phone’ an IP telephone service and had around 4.3 million subscribers at the end of October 2004.
They had over 4 million long before Skype...
http://www.point-topic.com/content/bmm/pro...Yahoo+Japan.htm
And one of the key diffrences to Skype, each one of YahooBB! Japan's subscribers is a paying customer.
And they are all online all the time, as they embed the SIP ATA in the broadband modem. What so many Skypers have been asking for...
Give me the name of the voip service other than skype which has had more than 4 million users online at once? Enough said.
[/quote]
You just set yourself up all the time, do you enjoy it?
YahooBB! Japan, based on SIP, has more subscribers online simultaneously than that of Skype. Enough said.
[quote=Point]Yahoo Japan
23 September 2005
Yahoo Japan is a Joint Venture between the Softbank group and Yahoo. As on 31 Dec 2001, Softbank had a 66% stake in the Joint Venture, with Yahoo holding the rest. The group markets one of Japan’s largest Internet portals under the name, Yahoo Japan.
The total number of Yahoo Japan VoIP subscribers increased from 4,630,000 at the end of June 2005 to 4,674,000 at the end of July 2005.
[b]On 25 April 2002, Yahoo Japan launched ‘BB Phone’ an IP telephone service and had around 4.3 million subscribers at the end of October 2004.
They had over 4 million long before Skype...
http://www.point-topic.com/content/bmm/pro...Yahoo+Japan.htm
And one of the key diffrences to Skype, each one of YahooBB! Japan's subscribers is a paying customer.
And they are all online all the time, as they embed the SIP ATA in the broadband modem. What so many Skypers have been asking for...
[quote=muppetmaster]YahooBB! Japan, based on SIP, has more subscribers online simultaneously than that of Skype. Enough said.[/quote]
[quote=Point-topic.com]The total number of Yahoo Japan VoIP subscribers increased from 4,630,000 at the end of June 2005 to 4,674,000 at the end of July 2005.[/quote]
Indeed, that is the TOTAL number of subscribers. Skype has 4 million users actually USING the service during peak hours. It is one thing to say you have 4 million SUBSCRIBERS, and another to put those subscribers to use. Skype requires you to log in, and therefore the 4 million simultaneous users is a correct representation. I'll give yahoo japan 50% of their subscribers being active simultaneously, and that is generous. That gives them roughly 2.3 million users active. You did try and put a nice spin on it though. I must give you credit for effort, A+.
[quote=Point-topic.com]The total number of Yahoo Japan VoIP subscribers increased from 4,630,000 at the end of June 2005 to 4,674,000 at the end of July 2005.[/quote]
Indeed, that is the TOTAL number of subscribers. Skype has 4 million users actually USING the service during peak hours. It is one thing to say you have 4 million SUBSCRIBERS, and another to put those subscribers to use. Skype requires you to log in, and therefore the 4 million simultaneous users is a correct representation. I'll give yahoo japan 50% of their subscribers being active simultaneously, and that is generous. That gives them roughly 2.3 million users active. You did try and put a nice spin on it though. I must give you credit for effort, A+.
2721 posts and still wasting his "precious" time on a forum where a huge majority actually seem to enjoy Skype and also seem to have patiens with its development... :lol:
I wonder what muppetmaster's true objectives are sometimes...
I wonder what muppetmaster's true objectives are sometimes...
[quote=muppetmaster]From online viral take-up to cheesy on the street panhandling. Is Skype desperate for growth?[/quote] WTF does that mean :?: All commercial companies are eager for growth and marketing is one way to achieve this. What is wrong with that or does it upset your sensibilties that companies sell their products? Don't tell me you know all about effective marketing and this won't work. Why do you care?
[quote=muppetmaster]Skype definately has not gone past much more than 4 Million on-line, and it took longer than most people expected to get through that number.[/quote] How do you know that it has failed to meet the aims of the directors? It has got there and may well achieve double the current figures this time next year. It may, as I suspect, exceed even your expectations.
For a company that didn't exist 3 years ago to have 4 million active users at one time is not to be sneered at. No doubt your own company supports more? Good for you I'm surprised you have the time to post as much as you do.
I detect some jealousy on your own part that you didn't think up Skype yourself. Must be annoying you that it hasn't failed yet.
Anyway you've got yourself a fan club now so you must be happy with your trolling work. Well done muppet!!
[quote=muppetmaster]Skype definately has not gone past much more than 4 Million on-line, and it took longer than most people expected to get through that number.[/quote] How do you know that it has failed to meet the aims of the directors? It has got there and may well achieve double the current figures this time next year. It may, as I suspect, exceed even your expectations.
For a company that didn't exist 3 years ago to have 4 million active users at one time is not to be sneered at. No doubt your own company supports more? Good for you I'm surprised you have the time to post as much as you do.
I detect some jealousy on your own part that you didn't think up Skype yourself. Must be annoying you that it hasn't failed yet.
Anyway you've got yourself a fan club now so you must be happy with your trolling work. Well done muppet!!
Hmm, I read the Yahoo press release to say that their product is VOIP with bundled broadband.
I would say that they've put the cart before the horse though, and it would be more accurate to say it's broadband with bundled VOIP (since I use my broadband for a lot more than Skype, and I'm guesssing that I'm not in the minority.) And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that some of their broadband customers are not using the bundled VOIP anyway.
So, I think this press release is misleading at best, and should not be taken as a count of VOIP customers.
So I guess the challange still stands. Got anyone else?
I would say that they've put the cart before the horse though, and it would be more accurate to say it's broadband with bundled VOIP (since I use my broadband for a lot more than Skype, and I'm guesssing that I'm not in the minority.) And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that some of their broadband customers are not using the bundled VOIP anyway.
So, I think this press release is misleading at best, and should not be taken as a count of VOIP customers.
So I guess the challange still stands. Got anyone else?
[quote=yumfart]Indeed, that is the TOTAL number of subscribers. Skype has 4 million users actually USING the service during peak hours.[/quote]
Shows your fundamental lack of understanding of the technologies at play. Skype's 4 million users are simply 'logged' on, this does not mean they are 'using' Skype actively. The 4 million+ of Yahoo BB! are also on and present, given the nature of ATAs and SIP, but it does not mean they are actively 'using' the service either.
[quote=yumfart]It is one thing to say you have 4 million SUBSCRIBERS, and another to put those subscribers to use.[/quote]
Once again, you cloud the concept of subscribers, users online and active use. There are differences you know.
[quote=yumfart]Skype requires you to log in, and therefore the 4 million simultaneous users is a correct representation.[/quote]
Which is the same for Yahoo BB!, as all of the subscribers are logged in and capable of receiving and placing calls, as long as their broadband router is on of course (which of course most people keep their routers on, but turn off their computers)...
[quote=yumfart]I'll give yahoo japan 50% of their subscribers being active simultaneously, and that is generous.[/quote]
Once again, showing your fundamental lack of understanding of the technologies at play. Are you saying 50% of Yahoo BB! users turn off the broadband routers on a regular basis? No.
Even if we took your argument at face value, you fail to understand that Japan is in one timezone, hence all users are probably on at relatively the same times. Contrary to Skype, where there is a follow the sun effect of peak times, and I still see it get below 2 million.
[quote=yumfart]That gives them roughly 2.3 million users active. You did try and put a nice spin on it though. I must give you credit for effort, A+.[/quote]
No spin at all. It is amusing to watch you parade your ignorance though. :lol:
This isn't the first thread we have had such a good show.
Shows your fundamental lack of understanding of the technologies at play. Skype's 4 million users are simply 'logged' on, this does not mean they are 'using' Skype actively. The 4 million+ of Yahoo BB! are also on and present, given the nature of ATAs and SIP, but it does not mean they are actively 'using' the service either.
[quote=yumfart]It is one thing to say you have 4 million SUBSCRIBERS, and another to put those subscribers to use.[/quote]
Once again, you cloud the concept of subscribers, users online and active use. There are differences you know.
[quote=yumfart]Skype requires you to log in, and therefore the 4 million simultaneous users is a correct representation.[/quote]
Which is the same for Yahoo BB!, as all of the subscribers are logged in and capable of receiving and placing calls, as long as their broadband router is on of course (which of course most people keep their routers on, but turn off their computers)...
[quote=yumfart]I'll give yahoo japan 50% of their subscribers being active simultaneously, and that is generous.[/quote]
Once again, showing your fundamental lack of understanding of the technologies at play. Are you saying 50% of Yahoo BB! users turn off the broadband routers on a regular basis? No.
Even if we took your argument at face value, you fail to understand that Japan is in one timezone, hence all users are probably on at relatively the same times. Contrary to Skype, where there is a follow the sun effect of peak times, and I still see it get below 2 million.
[quote=yumfart]That gives them roughly 2.3 million users active. You did try and put a nice spin on it though. I must give you credit for effort, A+.[/quote]
No spin at all. It is amusing to watch you parade your ignorance though. :lol:
This isn't the first thread we have had such a good show.
[quote=duckhead92]So, I think this press release is misleading at best, and should not be taken as a count of VOIP customers.
So I guess the challange still stands. Got anyone else?[/quote]
Wrong. Take a look at this:
[quote=Forbes]Softbank Corp said the number of subscribers to its Yahoo! BB broadband Internet service, its joint venture with Yahoo Japan Corp, increased 26,000 from February to 4.803 mln at the end of April.
The figure covers subscribers to its ADSL broadband services but does not include those taking the new optical fiber connection service. The company only[/quote]
Source
April 2005 = 4.8 Million Broadband Subscribers (actually more based on the article)
July 2005 = 4.67 Million VoIP Subscribers
Based on this, one will notice that VoIP subscribers are indeed a subset of the total number of Broadband subscribers. So, indeed Yahoo BB! has more online users than Skype, and definately more paying customers.
A little more:
[quote=Light Reading]"We estimate that one operator, Yahoo Broadband in Japan, accounts for around 80% of worldwide VoIP subscribers," says John Bosnell a Senior Analyst at Point Topic.[/quote]
Source
(They did not count SkypeIn/SkypeOut users, but they do verify the number of VoIP subscribers of Yahoo BB!)
What is it with the Skype bubble that folks live in that clouds their view of reality?
So I guess the challange still stands. Got anyone else?[/quote]
Wrong. Take a look at this:
[quote=Forbes]Softbank Corp said the number of subscribers to its Yahoo! BB broadband Internet service, its joint venture with Yahoo Japan Corp, increased 26,000 from February to 4.803 mln at the end of April.
The figure covers subscribers to its ADSL broadband services but does not include those taking the new optical fiber connection service. The company only[/quote]
Source
April 2005 = 4.8 Million Broadband Subscribers (actually more based on the article)
July 2005 = 4.67 Million VoIP Subscribers
Based on this, one will notice that VoIP subscribers are indeed a subset of the total number of Broadband subscribers. So, indeed Yahoo BB! has more online users than Skype, and definately more paying customers.
A little more:
[quote=Light Reading]"We estimate that one operator, Yahoo Broadband in Japan, accounts for around 80% of worldwide VoIP subscribers," says John Bosnell a Senior Analyst at Point Topic.[/quote]
Source
(They did not count SkypeIn/SkypeOut users, but they do verify the number of VoIP subscribers of Yahoo BB!)
What is it with the Skype bubble that folks live in that clouds their view of reality?
All that I'm saying is that it might very well be the case that these people signed up for Yahoo Japan for broadband instead of VOIP, and don't use the VOIP piece. My guess is when you sign up for the services, get get their ATA, it's installed, setup but nobody ever calls out.
Whereas in Skype's case, someone has made a deliberate decision to install the client, create the account, and start the client. Of course, that doesn't mean that they use it anymore, and may just leave it running in their System Tray, but I think it's a more deliberate action.
In any case, the numbers are close enough to the Skype numbers that I think it's quite likely that Skype still has more online users on average. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to know without some more precise numbers from Yahoo Japan.
I'm curious how the Light Reading website confirmed the 4 million number from the other website, and said that was 80% of the total. Especially since we know Skype has around 4 million active users themselves. There's just no way to reconcile these numbers. So I read the article. The interesting thing is that they don't consider Skype part of the total. If they had, I would take that to mean that Yahoo Japan and Skype own about 90% of the marketplace. This would obviously imply that there's no other competition to Skype than Yahoo Japan. But, I have to admit that I'm suspicious about any article that disregards on of the 2 biggest players in an industry, especially when that player is responsible for around 40% of the business. So, I'm not inclined to believe anything they say.
I'm not saying that Skype is the 800 lb gorilla by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just wondering who else is as big as them.
Whereas in Skype's case, someone has made a deliberate decision to install the client, create the account, and start the client. Of course, that doesn't mean that they use it anymore, and may just leave it running in their System Tray, but I think it's a more deliberate action.
In any case, the numbers are close enough to the Skype numbers that I think it's quite likely that Skype still has more online users on average. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to know without some more precise numbers from Yahoo Japan.
I'm curious how the Light Reading website confirmed the 4 million number from the other website, and said that was 80% of the total. Especially since we know Skype has around 4 million active users themselves. There's just no way to reconcile these numbers. So I read the article. The interesting thing is that they don't consider Skype part of the total. If they had, I would take that to mean that Yahoo Japan and Skype own about 90% of the marketplace. This would obviously imply that there's no other competition to Skype than Yahoo Japan. But, I have to admit that I'm suspicious about any article that disregards on of the 2 biggest players in an industry, especially when that player is responsible for around 40% of the business. So, I'm not inclined to believe anything they say.
I'm not saying that Skype is the 800 lb gorilla by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just wondering who else is as big as them.
[quote=duckhead92]In any case, the numbers are close enough to the Skype numbers that I think it's quite likely that Skype still has more online users on average. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to know without some more precise numbers from Yahoo Japan.[/quote]
Bingo, which means that Skype's 'leading' position is disputable. And there is a comprable service that we know has more paying subscribers (which is really the most important to their respective bottom lines).
[quote=duckhead92]I'm curious how the Light Reading website confirmed the 4 million number from the other website, and said that was 80% of the total. Especially since we know Skype has around 4 million active users themselves.[/quote]
If you notice, Skype was never mentioned. This report is focused on PSTN interconnected services. So the 80% of the total market does not take into account Skype users. It does leave out SkypeIn/SkypeOut, as these users are many times classed differently than users of Vonage and Yahoo BB! (even Skype ascerts they are 'different' and not a PSTN replacement in order to evade e911 responsibilities). Nonetheless it serves as another validation of the number of users that Yahoo BB! has for their voip service.
[quote=duckhead92]There's just no way to reconcile these numbers. So I read the article. The interesting thing is that they don't consider Skype part of the total. If they had, I would take that to mean that Yahoo Japan and Skype own about 90% of the marketplace.[/quote]
Or more.
[quote=duckhead92]This would obviously imply that there's no other competition to Skype than Yahoo Japan. But, I have to admit that I'm suspicious about any article that disregards on of the 2 biggest players in an industry, especially when that player is responsible for around 40% of the business.[/quote]
Not true, as Skype themselves say only about 2 Million users are SkypeOut users, and presumably a subset of that number are SkypeIn users.
[quote=duckhead92]So, I'm not inclined to believe anything they say.[/quote]
Well, that is your choice of course. Not how the industry sees it though.
[quote=duckhead92]I'm not saying that Skype is the 800 lb gorilla by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just wondering who else is as big as them.[/quote]
Yahoo BB! is bigger in terms of paying subscribers (indisputable), and as big or bigger in terms of regular online/connected users.
PS - I only see 3.4 Million Skype users on at 4.00pm EST...
Bingo, which means that Skype's 'leading' position is disputable. And there is a comprable service that we know has more paying subscribers (which is really the most important to their respective bottom lines).
[quote=duckhead92]I'm curious how the Light Reading website confirmed the 4 million number from the other website, and said that was 80% of the total. Especially since we know Skype has around 4 million active users themselves.[/quote]
If you notice, Skype was never mentioned. This report is focused on PSTN interconnected services. So the 80% of the total market does not take into account Skype users. It does leave out SkypeIn/SkypeOut, as these users are many times classed differently than users of Vonage and Yahoo BB! (even Skype ascerts they are 'different' and not a PSTN replacement in order to evade e911 responsibilities). Nonetheless it serves as another validation of the number of users that Yahoo BB! has for their voip service.
[quote=duckhead92]There's just no way to reconcile these numbers. So I read the article. The interesting thing is that they don't consider Skype part of the total. If they had, I would take that to mean that Yahoo Japan and Skype own about 90% of the marketplace.[/quote]
Or more.
[quote=duckhead92]This would obviously imply that there's no other competition to Skype than Yahoo Japan. But, I have to admit that I'm suspicious about any article that disregards on of the 2 biggest players in an industry, especially when that player is responsible for around 40% of the business.[/quote]
Not true, as Skype themselves say only about 2 Million users are SkypeOut users, and presumably a subset of that number are SkypeIn users.
[quote=duckhead92]So, I'm not inclined to believe anything they say.[/quote]
Well, that is your choice of course. Not how the industry sees it though.
[quote=duckhead92]I'm not saying that Skype is the 800 lb gorilla by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just wondering who else is as big as them.[/quote]
Yahoo BB! is bigger in terms of paying subscribers (indisputable), and as big or bigger in terms of regular online/connected users.
PS - I only see 3.4 Million Skype users on at 4.00pm EST...
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