(for English text, please scroll down)
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Списак доступних превода Скајпа на српски | A list of the existing Serbian Skype translations
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Најава

Поштовани пријатељи,

Програм Skype преведен је у потпуности на српски језик.

Како се српски језик може записати с два различита писма, ћириличним и латиничним, на располагању су Вам и две датотеке са преводом: на ћирилици и на латиници.

Можете их пронаћи и преузети у дну ове поруке.

На жалост, не користим Windows тако да не могу да проверим да ли су датотеке заиста исправне. Ваша помоћ је добродошла, као и сви коментари и критике.

Уједно се захваљујем свима који су преводили претходна издања и Skype заједници уопште.

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Announcement

Dear friends,

Skype has been fully translated into the Serbian language.

As the Serbian language can be written down equivocally using two different scripts, the Cyrillic and the Latin, you have two different translation files at your disposal: the Cyrillic translation and the Latin one.

You can find and download them at the end of this message.

Unfortunately, I do not use Windows so I cannot check whether the files are really correct. Your help is welcome just as all comments and criticism are.

At the same time, I wish to thank all the previous translators of Skype to Serbian, and the Skype community in general.

ф

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Сажетак измена | Change summary

2005-04-05: 1.2
2005-04-25: 1.2.0.41
2005-05-01: Corrected the error in the conversion software that shortened the long translation lines. Replaced the translation files for the new ones.
2005-06-13: 1.3.0.29
2005-07-01:
1.3.0.45
2005-07-02: 1.3.0.51
2005-07-03: 1.3.0.54

Dear Friends,

You can find all the resources I use for producing the Serbian translations here.

This includes the translations themselves, the po and pot files and the change logs.

Please note that these files are not official in any way. They are there to encourage peer review only. All the files that I consider fit for releasing will appear here, as the attachments to the messages in this topic.

Thanks,
f

Dobrodošao,

Prijevod je OK, dajem glas, puno bolji od nekoherentnog prijevoda
koji se prethodno pojavio (NHF sekularac).
Dajem glas ZA .

Detalj: u 625. liniju možeš dodati nešto kao Serbian/Cрпски tako da ga prikazuje u listi jezika.

Keep on goin'

Pozdrav,

Josip

[quote=j.ilic]Dobrodošao,

Prijevod je OK, dajem glas, puno bolji od nekoherentnog prijevoda
koji se prethodno pojavio (NHF sekularac).
Dajem glas ZA .

Detalj: u 625. liniju možeš dodati nešto kao Serbian/Cрпски tako da ga prikazuje u listi jezika.

Keep on goin'

Pozdrav,

Josip[/quote]

Ok, let us switch to English so that others would understand too. For instance, your opinion on the quality of the new translation should somehow reach the Skype people just as well.

Thanks for your review. Line 625 has been corrected.

You can see what changed since the last edition here.

Your changes are incorporated (search for the string ":625" in the link above).

The ongoing and old versions of the lang files you can find here. This is to encourage peer review only and should not be considered official in any form of the word.

Thus take note: only the language files that I attach here to the forum are the official release files

How can I upload new versions of the lang files in the first message of this thread, so that I do not lose the download stats when I change the versions?

10x,
f

[quote=filmil]How can I upload new versions of the lang files in the first message of this thread, so that I do not lose the download stats when I change the versions?[/quote]

Try the following:
1. Edit the post with the lang file attached.
-- You should see the the attachement and the button "Upload new version". It's in the middle.
2. Press it and select the updated file from your PC. wrong
First select the updated file, and than press the "Upload new version" button. /UPDATED
3. Than if you want you can edit the description. After finishing the editing, press "Update comment".
4. Finally you got two choices:
a) Preview - checks the whole post before uploading.
b) Submit - uploads your post.

That's all.

[quote=zmeYpc]-- You should see the the attachement and the button "Upload new version". It's in the middle.
[/quote]

In fact, this is why I asked: I pressed the Upload New Version, but nothing happened. I will try again.

f

[quote=zmeYpc]2. Press it and select the updated file from your PC.[/quote] I appologise for the inconvinience, but I was not very clear:
First you must select the updated file from your PC. And just than you should press the button "Upload new version"

Sorry filmil I've created a mess. :-( I hope this time it will work.

[quote=zmeYpc]
Sorry filmil I've created a mess. :-( I hope this time it will work.[/quote]

Hey there, relax! All's well, no hard feelings etc. We're amongst friends here. Will try your advice out when the next edition is ready.

f

It works. I've just updated the latest Bulgarian file here:
http://forum.skype.com/viewtopic.php?p=101712
The filenames are the same and the sequence is:
1. Select the updated file. 2. Press the "Upload new version" button (The file is uploaded, but you continue editing the post). 3. Edit the description. 4. Press the "Update comment" (Same result). 5. Press "Submit" and the post will be uploaded.
The stats are not affected.

Thanks for the detailed info.

f

Another user has contributed a Serbian translation of Skype. Serbian Latin is provided.

Comparisons and evaluation is welcome.

http://forum.skype.com/viewtopic.php?t=24195

(for English text scroll down)

Поштовани пријатељи:

Доступан је превод програма Skype на српски у издању 1.2.0.41, 1.2.0.48. Као и обично, можете преузети ћирилични, латинични или оба превода.

Захвалнице:

зато што су написали овај изванредни програм
Кориснику zmeYpc и преводиоцима на бугарски језик за детаљне дискусије превода и савете
Свим преводиоцима на српски и сродне језике, за корисне идеје за преводе (без посебног редоследа: 1, 2, 3, 4)
Свима са теме Latest .lang који су послали језичку датотеку за ново издање



Молим вас да, пошто прегледате превод, дате своје мишљење о њему.

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Dear Friends:

The Serbian translation of Skype version 1.2.0.41, 1.2.0.48 is now available. As usual, you can download the cyrillic translation, the latin translation, or both.

Acknowledgments:

for making this outstanding program
To the fellow user zmeYpc and Bulgarian translators, for detailed discussions of the translation and useful advice
To all the translators of Skype to Serbian and related languages for useful translation ideas (in no particular order: 1, 2, 3, 4)
To all from the topic Latest .lang that supplied the language file for the latest version.



After trying the translation out, please provide feedback of its quality.

NB: According to fellow users, the translation for Skype version 1.2.0.41 is also applicable for Skype version 1.2.0.48.

f

Another user contributed a translation in latin alphabet only.

f

[quote=filmil]
Доступан је превод програма Skype на српски у издању 1.2.0.41. ...

The Serbian translation of Skype version 1.2.0.41 is now available.[/quote]

Dear Friends:

I made an error when packaging the 1.2.0.48 translation that had the date tag 20050425 (i.e. April 25, 2005). The long translation lines have not been handled correctly by the conversion software.

I hope to have corrected this and have posted the updated translations. These bear the date tag 20050501 (i.e. May 1, 2005).

f

Нека решења ми се свиђају и у духу су језика који се тренутно користи а са којим нисам 100% упућен. Друга бих опет мало дотерао али свакако ово из дана у дан постаје све обимнији посао. На преводу ове верзије сам већ дуже радио с времена на време али је још нисам завршио. Наш језик је доста компликован тако да је некада најбоље употребљавати једноставнија решења чак и када нису сасвим одговарајућа пошто у противном има много грешака у падежима и родовима. Такође је све теже одржати консистентност превода због повећаног обима. Проблем је и сто се при превлачењу мишем преко сличица појављују ????? у ћириличној верзији. И ја нисам још тај проблем решио. У сваком случају треба још мало дораде и финесица на које ти временом могу указати али мислим да ћеш их и сам увидети пречитавајући превод из почетка што се тиче стилистике али трудићу се више да ти помогнем са неким ситницама у семантици. Поздрав Дарко

Хвала на коментарима. Ако негде има проблема са преводом, не би било лоше да покажеш конкретно то место. Превод је за сада употребљив само за Windows, али ја користим издање Скајпа за Linux, па не могу да испробам превод. Зато верујем да и даље постоје грубе ивице: превод сам прегледао летимично код пријатеља и делује смислено. Али наравно не могу да гарантујем да нема грешака.



Не посебно много теже. Направио сам програм који се аутоматски стара о томе и спаја сличне поруке када је потребно. Тако је одржавање самог превода лакше, по цену да се не преводи директно из програма.



То је проблем у програму, а не у преводу. Да би се решило мораш што пре да пријавиш проблем ауторима. Мењањем превода се ништа не добија.



Што пре то боље. Ако имаш конкретне коментаре, и ако су оправдани, врло радо ћу исправити превод.

ф

The translation is pretty good but at first sight (I haven’t checked it completely) there is a problem that I also faced.
(btw, I didn’t know for your translation and did it too in some 80% of complete file,. After I found yours I’ll leave my one, it would be wasting of time )

In my opinion there are few terms that can not (and shouldn’t) be translated into Serbian because thy have been accepted by everyone and at least there is no appropriate word in Serbian.
As first I have in mind words “online”, “offline”.
Your solution “povezan” i “nepovezan” is interesting and can be understood but certainly not right choice. To be honest, even after 16 years in computer’s world, at the first moment I haven’t been sure what you meant by “povezan”
I fully agree it is very difficult to find the right word for it and that’s why I propose to leave it in its English form.
At least, as I already said, those terms are broadly accepted and there is no doubt what it means for anyone who uses computer, internet and Skype

Another thing is “Contacts”. I’m unsure what the right term in our language is… Maybe it might be translated as “kontakt lista” or “lista poznanika”. Regarding this there is also a technical problem. “Dodaj poznanika” is too long and takes to much space, goes over next button on Toolbar “Konferencija” which is also quite long. My idea was to set it as “Dodaj u listu” and “Contacts” in general as “kontakt lista”, “stavka u kontakt listi” “imate 2 iz kontakt liste koji su online”

Couple more translations are also too long and can’t be “shoved” into place designed for it (there is a prob even with few command buttons) so as a reslut they are cropped on one or both of sides

After having another look at it I’ll feel free to post my opinion again.
Anyway you did great job. Thank you, at least for saving my time translating it 
:lol:

[quote=Zox_be](btw, I didn’t know for your translation and did it too in some 80% of complete file,.[/quote]

I have found if funny that people often default that their favourite piece of software has no translation to Serbian.

FYI many programs, and more by the day, are available with Serbian translations. Flagship translations are of course those of GNOME, KDE, Windows XP, Firefox. More are available by the day.

[quote]In my opinion there are few terms that can not (and shouldn’t) be translated into Serbian because thy have been accepted by everyone and at least there is no appropriate word in Serbian.
As first I have in mind words “online”, “offline”.
Your solution “povezan” i “nepovezan” is interesting and can be understood but certainly not right choice. To be honest, even after 16 years in computer’s world, at the first moment I haven’t been sure what you meant by “povezan”
I fully agree it is very difficult to find the right word for it and that’s why I propose to leave it in its English form.
[/quote]

I will take the liberty of strongly disagreeing with you on this point, for several reasons.

First, it is not true that terms have not been coined up in Serbian for computer terms. You can look at the online dictionary of computing terms used by Serbian translation communities, or you may choose to opt for a more legitimate source of info, the glossaries used by contemporary computer publishers.

Second, the choice of the translation for "offline" and "online" was motivated by the intent of Skype to use familiar terms from telephony, rather than fancy Internet terms, to make the interface appealing to non-technical people. From telephony there exists a better term for online ("na vezi", literally "on the line") that takes the same amount of space, whitespaces included, but it would have an awkward long negation ("nije na vezi". literally "not on the line", as opposed to "van veze", literally "out of the line", which is very awkward and AFAIK noone uses it). Thus "povezan" and "nepovezan". I would be glad to change "online" := "povezan"->"na vezi" if an adequate negation could be found for "offline". With an appropriate rationale, the pair ("na vezi", "nepovezan") for ("online", "offline") could do.

Third, from experiments the translators have found out that the fact some people are 'used to' an English term does not 1) create a barrier to accept a well formed translation 2) affect the ability of newcomers to comprehend the translation 3) justify the term be used without translation.

Fourth, IMHO the only thing worse than a bad translation is no translation. This kind of goes along the item 3) from the above, and favors anything over "onlajn", "oflajn". Leaving the words "offline" and "online" in Serbian is plain wrong.

To put this into a little bit of a context, I will say that my experience with and around computers extends for somewhat longer time than yours; but I am certainly not the expert in language. So I leave little room for not understanding the meaning of the terms, but quite some room for not being able to catch and convey the real meaning of these terms. What I do know even with a limited grip on the grammar and style is that what you suggest here cannot be good style Serbian language and is reasonable to avoid.

[quote]Another thing is “Contacts”. I’m unsure what the right term in our language is… Maybe it might be translated as “kontakt lista” or “lista poznanika”. [/quote]

I have had doubts about this, admittedly central concept of Skype. "Kontakt lista" or "lista poznanika" would I think be considered bad style as the first one does not translate anything and has an awkward inversion which is bad language style, while the other one favors "lista", over "spisak" which has more "domestic" flavor.

As said I am no language expert so I had to break a tie here, trying to learn from the experts. Better suggestions are welcome, but if you are going to opt for "kontakt lista" you should think of a very good reason to do so.

The translation of the GAIM internet messenger uses "drugar" (literally: buddy) for a similar term, but this seemed too informal and even in English I find it inappropriate in many contexts.

But yes, this, and especially "konferencija" from below scream for a better translation. Ideas are welcome. I thought to revive "zbor" (loosely: "the gathering (for a talk)") for a replacement. It's a nice word, meaning exactly the same but, more used in the past than now. There may be no problem to overload it to also mean the gathering in a virtual space.

[quote]Regarding this there is also a technical problem. “Dodaj poznanika” is too long and takes to much space, goes over next button on Toolbar “Konferencija” which is also quite long. My idea was to set it as “Dodaj u listu” and “Contacts” in general as “kontakt lista”, “stavka u kontakt listi” “imate 2 iz kontakt liste koji su online”[/quote]

Another point I have an opinion on.

In my view, the problem is converse: it is not the translation that is too long, it is rather the space reserved for it that is too short.

Translators should of course try to find the shortest and sweetest of catchphrases, but it is not the design of the user interface that should force them into doing so. The user interface should instead take the text metrics and form itself around the text properly. This is the 21st century and GUI toolkits are mature enough to do so.

I have no intention of changing the translation for the sole purpose of satisfying the text metrics that have clearly been made for English only, and maybe fit a few other "major" languages too. I am always in favor of refining the translation for better understanding and quality gain, but I will not consider artificial limitations such.

(that said, you can always change the translation if need be)

It might be more useful to ask skype.com to take more care to the needs of their international users and ammend the GUIs to take care of this peculiarity. There are other things to consider for proper software localization such as the issue of multiple plurals in Serbian and like languages. These are handled by proper localization software and it would only gain momentum to Skype to implement this. I understand that Skype worries about market shares more than about translation trivia, but I am definitely not insolent enough to bend the language to suit the software. IMHO it should be other way around.

[quote]After having another look at it I’ll feel free to post my opinion again.[/quote]

Please come back with comments any time.

You can in fact do more. There is nothing wrong with taking the translation as I, or someone else, made it and adjusting it to your personal preference. Having read this topic carefully, you must have noticed the links leading to translations by other authors. Feel free to try them out and see what you like and what you do not like.

Cheers,
f

Reading this thread over again, I’ve finally realized that u r Linux guy. So, that justifies your way of thinking that everything has to be open sourced, translated, localized, adapted to all the communities even they are to small and not being interesting market…
(I’m kidding, no offense.. I fully agree with you but the reality differs little bit from our wishes. Btw. Do not start “evergreen” discussion Linux vs. Windows and what’s better, pls.)

[quote]Fourth, IMHO the only thing worse than a bad translation is no translation. [/quote]

Ok, I respect your opinion but…
I just want to remind you what Croatians did with their “new Croatian language” following “only no translation is worse than a bad translation” point and wishing to have “highly localized” language. Now, they have “zrakomlat” for helicopter (for non-Serbian speakers: “air-thresher” although the whole world has no other word for it but “helicopter”), “okolopojasni pantalodrzac” for belt (I can’t translate it into English but most similar would be “round - waist trousers-holder”. Believe or not, their officials insist it to be pronounced exactly like that. Most of Croatians even laugh on it and of course don’t accept it).

Another example:
As you probably know, they have added new verb in official Merriam Webster’s English dictionary last year. It’s about “to google” verb. It’s a question of time when programmers will start to use that verb in programs instead of “search”. Ok, try to “localize” that verb in Serbian.
"Search on the WEB"? hm... nooo... "Find in all web pages on the WWW global netwrk" ? Nice try but...

The links you have pointed to are really good and useful but we come to the well known issue:
Language experts are in most of cases not IT literate, they do not understand IT “feeling” of some words, they do translation literary and literally. On the other side, IT experts have no idea about semantics, language rules etc…

As a (philosophical) conclusion:
Some things in life are better to be kept as they are. 

[quote]It might be more useful to ask skype.com to take more care to the needs of their international users and ammend the GUIs to take care of this peculiarity.[/quote]
When it comes to “ask Skype stuff to adapt the program’s interface to local translations” point I would freely say that you have too optimistic look at the world around… Oh yes, you come from Linux world… :wink:
My dear, they even don’t care about user’s complaints regarding payment problems(?! – it seems they won’t money), quality issues etc… Do you really think they will reprogram Skype for one small customer group which counts no more than couple of hundreds/thousands users which even don’t use so much SkypeOut where their profit comes from? Most probably they’ll do it once but meanwhile we don’t have to guess what is written on a button where we see middle of the word only.

P.S..
Discussion with you (and others of course) seems to be really interesting but I would say that we do nothing else than “discovering hot water” (what would say in Serbian :wink: ) because this issue has been discussed and considered (even by much more competent experts than we two are) a thousand of times till now but without right, good and acceptable conclusion.

I see you are in Utrecht (pretty close to my place in Belgium) so, enjoy this (un)expected nice weather.

In addition …
If you agree I propose this:
Let your translation be initial point for everyone who wishes to (re)adapt it in own way. As a member of open source community this should be fully acceptable for you. Of course credit(s) must be kept.

[quote=Zox_be]Do not start “evergreen” discussion Linux vs. Windows and what’s better, pls.)[/quote]

Don't worry, I will not. I already know the answer.

[quote]I just want to remind you what Croatians did with their “new Croatian language” following “only no translation is worse than a bad translation” point and wishing to have
[/quote]

I was just establishing partial ordering between the 'no translation' and 'a bad translation'. There is nothing preventing the existence of a translation that dominates both on an established "quality" scale.

The rest of the exposition is off-topic, I must say.

[quote]start to use that verb in programs instead of “search”. Ok, try to “localize” that verb in Serbian.[/quote]

Given the lack of knowledge, I try to ask the experts. If not available, and given the still lack of knowledge, I must rely on experiments. I 'release' a word in the wild and see how and whether it survives. The latter fallback evolutionary method is used when the deterministic ones fail.

"Search on the WEB"? hm... nooo... "Find in all web pages on the WWW global netwrk" ? Nice try but...

[quote]Language experts are in most of cases not IT literate, they do not understand IT “feeling” of some words, they do translation literary and literally. On the other side, IT experts have no idea about semantics, language rules etc… [/quote]

Please do follow the links in some more depth, maybe start from http://www.nasepismo.net. We actually managed to pile together the people from both sides, some even knowing both well. It's been an interesting development, and you might be surprised about the result.

[quote]I would freely say that you have too optimistic look at the world around…[/quote]

May be, and I don't se anything inherrently wrong with that. I also reserve the right to be wrong. However, it is a fact is that software should not shape language. Sorry, but it just does not work that way. People should not conform to machines. Period.

[quote]My dear, they even don’t care about user’s complaints regarding payment problems(?! – it seems they won’t money), quality issues etc…[/quote]

With due respect, this issue is off-topic here. Maybe you should contact Skype user support.

[quote]interesting but I would say that we do nothing else than “discovering hot water” (what would say in Serbian :wink: ) [/quote]

Not necessarily. I try hard to rationalize decisions. Only then you can lift the topic from the 'matter of taste' type discussions that tend to 'rediscover the wheel' (that's the Serbian expression).

[quote]I see you are in Utrecht (pretty close to my place in Belgium) so, enjoy this (un)expected nice weather.[/quote]

Not Utrecht but Zuid Holland. Thanks anyway.

f

[quote=Zox_be]In addition …
If you agree I propose this:
Let your translation be initial point for everyone who wishes to (re)adapt it in own way. As a member of open source community this should be fully acceptable for you. Of course credit(s) must be kept.[/quote]

The proposal you made explicit goes without saying. Let there exist infinitely many translations, if need be. Find at http://cobalt.et.tudelft.nl/~filip/files/tran/skype all the material I've produced so far.

My mom can use Skype now. More credit I do not need.

f

Serbian language translations for 1.3.0.29 (Beta)

Serbian language translations for 1.3.0.45.

Списак свих мени познатих српских превода програма Скајп може се наћи овде.

The list of all Skype serbian translations I know is avaialble here.

Serbian translations, version 1.3.0.51

Serbian translation 1.3.0.54

Преузмите овде | Download here 1.3.0.55

f

Преузмите овде | Download here 1.3.0.57

f

I must say that I have learned very much from your transcription whit users of your translation of Skype. And I like to make some contribution.
First thing is that I'm on your side when you say:

[quote]Translators should of course try to find the shortest and sweetest of catchphrases, but it is not the design of the user interface that should force them into doing so. The user interface should instead take the text metrics and form itself around the text properly. This is the 21st century and GUI toolkits are mature enough to do so.[/quote]

But there are one little thing called usefulnes and you whit this standing do not obay it. Who needs somethin that is not useful? Of course you have that litle problem whit not using Windows.

Secound is that I have learned that bad translation is much worse than no translation. Mine close friend saw mine translation few days a go, and as an expert for serbian lenguage , she is a teacher of it, sad that some words if there is no right word in our lenguage for it should remain the same. So I'm thinkin of folowing that lead.

Third I don't know how, did I took it from you or it was the other way around, but you have same mistake in translation that I had for "Import contakts" there is standing: "Izvezi kontakte" or sme thing like that.

I hope I made some progres whit this post, and I would like to be so. Of course I would like some comments of mine translation, I have found mi self some mistakes for this version http://forum.skype.com/viewtopic.php?t=31295 to and I'm thinkin of renewing it, so any sugestion is wellcome.

PC: I liked it very much when I saw all Skype translations to serbian in one place. Nice thing!

[quote=jom]But there are one little thing called usefulnes and you whit this standing do not obay it. Who needs somethin that is not useful?[/quote]

You might be right, but I decided not to follow the 'useful' rule. I try to follow the 'good translation' rule.

This has a reason, that I described in some of the earlier messages. It is the task of the GUI programmers to make the UI look nice. The translator should only provide a good translation.

For quite some time people have been writing translatable programs -- you can look at Firefox and Thunderbird ( http://www.mozilla.org ), KDE ( http://www.kde.org ) and GNOME ( http://www.gnome.org ) and many more. It is not like the rules for internationalizable apps are not known. Skype has IMHO not honoured these rules well, hence the UI issues. But I believe that they will soon start to care about this too, as their international users rise in number. This is not only an issue with Serbian language, but others as well.

[quote]no right word in our lenguage for it should remain the same. So I'm thinkin of folowing that lead.[/quote]

You may want to consult the web dictionaries first. There's one at http://recnik.prevod.org and another one at http://www.mk.co.yu/recnik/.

I try to use words from these dictionaries where appropriate.

Be careful with using the no word in our language rule. The Serbian language has not had an official dictionary of 'standard language' published in a long time, so the 'no word' rule is stretching the obvious fact that the language has evolved a little bit too much. Just be warned.

[quote]that I had for "Import contakts" there is standing: "Izvezi kontakte"[/quote]

Found and corrected it. Thanks.

[quote]PC: I liked it very much when I saw all Skype translations to serbian in one place. Nice thing![/quote]

Glad you like it. I'd appreciate if you let me know when you publish a new version so I can update the page. I also use your translation to improve so there's a good cross-breeding so far.

f

Maybe I was not so clear, I wanted to say: When there is a word in some other lenguage that represent some isue beter then our word it should be used as it is. You can find that our lenguage is so rich whit specific terms because we usealy take our words for wider meaning an for qute specific ones we use forin wards, that some times mean the same thing as ours but we don't adopt them by their meaning only for their specifics.
Of course I like to use our words, some times I feel that people don't understand me because I use some words that are considered arhaic, and that some times can make a problem. As an examle I'll take word "zbor" that you mentioned, it is the word that stands in corect relation to word "konferencija", but I belive that no one will get that at first.
You can look some translations of mine brother and I at http://radojevic.cjb.net
So I just want to say that I'll keep on trying to make translation that is easier to use, and I'm allways grateful when I learn something more.
Mine best regards!

1.3.0.60

f

Update for 1.4.0.51 is now available.

Note: Some messages are missing; this will be corrected soon.

f

voice mail is not "glasovna posta" it will be "govorna posta".

Bad translation is very confused. In that case I always use foreign language.

I am never hear to someone say "glasovna posta". I live in center of Serbia and newer hear that. "glasovi" are spoken letters (spelling) and "govor" was spoken words, so "govorna posta" will be more understandeable then "glasovna posta". Your traslation seems to be like automated translation, and
I that is not good practice. Also a lot mistakes like that I can paste.

Please retranslate or recheck your translation.

I'd be glad to improve the translation.

But I need something to chew on. So please be so kind and take some time to paste the mistakes here. This way I will know what needs improvement.

f

BTW I am see that you use some translations from right dictionares, also you refer to www.kde.org etc etc. I am linux user too, but this is no metter which OS someone use, you know that if you use word by word translation, then you can make non-souded translation. You must translate manualy, or use dictionare for single words (like save, open, add, tools, etc etc) but not for frases, tehnical words (we dont have proper translation for a lot tehnical words, we use it as source at most cases. I know how kbabel work, or any translation software which can use external trasnlations. That is OK for more single words, but if you use always dictionares, then you will make a lot fuzzy traslatios.

Also if you translate to Serbian language, then it must be serbian, and must be understandable.

Keep at mind this "foreign language is better then bad translation"

I chose not fall back to foreign expressions even when the translations are not widely used. I understand this is a dangerous step for someone who is not a language expert so I try to provide some backup. Here goes.

For instance I used the newly-coined word 'vatrobran' (lit. fire-shield) for the term 'firewall'. I back up the decisions by the online dictionary of the Serbian L10N communities.

Here is the link for 'firewall': http://recnik.prevod.org/nadji/firewall . This does not mean that it's the right choice, as you will without doubt have seen that several candidate translations exist. It only means that several people who have themselves been busy translating, found it to be a good idea.



The choice for "glasovi" comes from the word for "voices", and not "spoken letters". Granted, I am not sure which translation is more appropriate.

The term 'govorna pošta' seems shorter. Can you somehow prove that 'govorna pošta' should be preferred over 'glasovna pošta'? If yes, this will be changed in the upcoming translations.

I understand your concern.

Please be so kind to point the badly translated lines out, and I will ammend the translations.



I keep in mind that 'bad translation is better than no translation' (which is the actual motto of at least several L10N communities, one being at http://plone.org/development/teams/i18n/).

Once again, examples of translation decisions badly made, and preferably with some explanation why, would be most welcome.

f

There is some fuzzy translations, I will post few , but if I must post it all, then it is more easy for me to make new translation.
So, there are, I am write this as your translation > better sounding
With my sugestion, translation dont sound as automated translation:

-zastupnik (for proxy) > proksi (I never heard about 'zastupnik' if you take back 'zastupnik' to english that will be lawyer 'advokat')

-ma ko moze da zove > 'povezivanje' or 'Skajpovo povezivanje' because I dont know how you are translated 'Skype connecting' in Tools/Options/Sounds .

-Razgovor na cekanju > Poziv na cekanju (call waiting not talk waiting) And all mobtel and telecom operators say 'poziv na cekanju' in Serbia when you want to subscribe to call waiting service.

And more. So please recheck your translation not with dictionary (word by word) check phrases, sounding, logic, and then make translation.

I am not good with quoteing, so sorry for whole quote on quoted message.

Maybe dictionary say that, but that is for single word, and can be right. But what you say for spokening letter 'A' ?
Is it voice or 'glas' or 'fon' so Serbian language are Phonetic language, one letter - one voice, in that case I am right. The most confusing is when some experts try to define translated words, and then they import missunderstanding, and others uses their experting work to be a clishe or as
official translation. You must translate whole phrases. I am apsolute positive about voice and talk. In english, voice can be talking because they havent rule one letter - one voice. In our case it cant be.
If meaning of "voice" in whole phrase sugest to letter, then it is OK, but in this case that is whole message with spoken words. Isnt it?

Thanks for the valuable input.

Of course you need not post all. However, the more you do post, the easier it will be for me to find and correct them.

You can use this file to see both the original message text and the way I translated it, side by side. It may be easier to check than it is by looking at the program.



Merriam-Webster says that 'proxy', can in fact, be a lawyer (or rather: a person empowered by a lawyer to trade). Also can mean a 'deputy'.

Consulting http://recnik.prevod.org/nadji/proxy sees the three suggestions side by side: 'proksi', 'zastupnik' and 'posrednik'.



I am not convinced that your argument applies in this case. You suggest the alternate meaning of 'glas' (=>'phoneme'), but that meaning does not apply to Skype.

So let us try to simplify the dilemma.

Consider:
1) The English expression 'voice mail' is literally translated to 'glasovna pošta'.

The intended meaning is that 'voice mail' is analogous to 'written mail', with the message carried by human voice, rather than paper. Using: '(human) voice' => '(ljudski) glas' yields the translation.

2) Your suggestion 'govorna pošta' is closer to 'spoken mail'.

The motif in this expression is that the message is spoken (by someone). Therefore, the expression does not translate 'voice mail', but rather something with similar meaning.

You point out correctly that, in case 2) is the right way to go in Serbian, it should not matter that 1) was obtained by literal translation.

Can you check that, for instance, the mobile telephony operators use the expression 2) in Serbian to mean 'voice mail'? I cannot check that so I need your help.

If yes, then you have a case and I will correct this.

Thanks for your time and cooperation,
f

When I recive SMS message from mobile service about my Voice mail, then I recive "Govorna posta, imate 1 novu poruku". When I am called MTS or MOBTEL to activate my Voice mail, then they activate "Govornu postu" and im my bill report I am see (early at 063 Voice mail was not free) "Govorna posta = XXX din" for Voice mail.

Also, in serbia have Voice mail for static phones, but on 041/042 service.
They advertise hes service as "Govorna posta".
Also Voice mail, can be assigned to Answering machine. For me, it is no problem. I just want to give you some suggestions, I can personalize translations for my needing, but tell me, are you ever hear in practice, in conversation phrase "Glasovna posta/poruka" or it is most in useing "Govorna posta".

Well, litheral (for tehnical expressions) for measure tools in serbian popular as "Subler" right is "Kljunasto pomicno merilo sa nonijusom" or, for "Srafciger" right is "Odvrtac". PPL on http://recnik.prevod.org trying to
find some solutions with vote method.

Well look about 'vote' that can be traslated as 'glasanje' as single word, but in phrase 'give a vote ...' 'dat glas ....' . Proporcional with this our issue, then it was right to be 'dato glasanje ....' or 'daj glasanje'. Of course that is not right meaning of that phrase, and also I think that some ppl want to adjust translations for english language which are very simple by gramatic and literal etc to complex language as Serbian. That is not possible. Alvays will be compromise solutions. So, it was very simple to use expressions which are very popular in practice, like we say "pricaj srpski da te svet razume, i ono sto je neprevodivo, usvoj kao nas termin, jer ne moze na silu da se fajl prevodi u datoteka, kad ni to nije nasa rec, vec ili da ostane fajl, jer datoteka moze biti vezana za baze podataka. Cak i sama rec baza nije nasa sta cemo ma kolko kompleksan i foneticki nas jezik bio, siromasni smo sa recima, dok smo najbogatiji sa slengom, psovkama i varijacijama reci )) Ovo nisam mogao da prevodim. Al nek se pomuce malo i englezi pa da prevedu ))

One more thing.

KDE i18n translation, and KDE is most popular at unix/linux platforms, as you can see on http://recnik.prevod.org/nadji/file too, for 'file' accepted translation is 'fajl' so, if we want to have unique dictionary for computer/internet expressions, then why not accept that ?
So for me it is more better sounding 'fajl' and not 'datoteka'. Voice mail is not generaly computer/internet expression, and can be translated to 'Govorna posta' as whole expression, but if you translate it word by word, then it is OK 'glasovna
posta' or 'posta glasa' but that is not voices, that is speaking, someone speak voices or someone playing voices (if playing some sound) or if I hear nonarticulate voices (neki majmun se dere i nista ne moze da se razume).

However, tehnical translations is needed for someone to be able to setup, adjust some aplication, and general words, it can be translated to be at level which a most ppl was already use in daily conversation.

This is a valuable piece of information. I never used voice mail in Serbia (and BTW don't use it now either) so I did not know what is the right expression.

You made a case and this will be corrected.

And of course that you are free to customize the translation to be the way you like it. If you do, you might want to contact me so that I could put a link to your translation, for all to admire.



In fact, the voting mechanism you saw at Prevod.org is only the tip of an iceberg.

It is a helper for quite an active translator community in Serbian language. Many translation suggestions have been debated extensively and carry much weight in argumentation. You may want to check with http://www.prevod.org for detailed info.



This is in part true; however, it difficult to proclaim something untranslatable.

As for your example of 'file'=>'fajl' versus 'file'=>'datoteka', the latter translation, 'datoteka' was used extensively in this sense at institutions of authority for this terminology, such as the School of Electrical Engineering in Belgrade and similar.

[I switched back in the reply to English as I believe it is important that the wider community be aware of the translation issues, since they in part affect others too]

And to be complete
computers was not very old.
Words 'firewall' or any words which are used in computer expressions, that words was borned on demand

We use some brute force of translation, and dont make OUR words for our understanding for some expressions. We want to use 'Srafciger' as germany word. To be funniest, we translate some words from english to turkish
About more then 30% words in Serbian language in daily useing are Turkish words. So if we can accept and use that words, then can accept and use 'fajl' or let we do as Croatian ppl, to have only our words, and if we havent translation, then use it i native (source) way. Croatian never use 'fajl' it will use 'file' if dont have right translation. Or names, Croatian never translate 'Skype' as 'Skajp' or any names of ppl, cityes etc. They will write it as source. Why translate Skype to Skajp ? That was name.
Then translate 'Microsoft Windows' to 'Prozori malog mekise' .
Or any 'windows' which point to 'MS' to be translated as 'prozori' Why not? If not then Skype is not 'Skajp' it is 'Skype' Why Skype is not good and can be changed, and Windows is good and not translated ?

Also Operating System translated to Operativni Sistem and both words are not our words. But file is not fajl confusing

I am laughting everytime when I see translation "windows se ponovo pokrece"

Well then thai is in oposite for ford 'datafile' or 'data file'
Both are egsist in english.

If ve translate 'file' to 'datoteka' and 'data' to 'podatak' then we must translate our translation 'datoteka'

Or if 'bilbioteka' is archive of books, then 'datoteka' was archive of datas.

Datafiles are archive of files or datas of file with datas.

So cant be same 'file' and 'datafile' and 'data'. In english 'file' , 'data file' and 'data' have different meaning.

Confusing isnt it ?

So, with all respecting for estabilishment in ETF (School of Electrical Engineering in Belgrade) they must leave translation job to ppl in other education institutions, which are responsible for Serbian language.

Or to accept expressions which are accepted and already in use for example at KDE and i18n. That sounds for me as "intelectual competition for something what is not hes domain'

In Serbian, the rules require that a foreign name be written in the way it is pronounced. In addition, the first time the name appears in the text, in the brackets the original spelling is given.

Thus, Shakespeare becoms Шекспир, Skype becomes Скајп, and Windows becomes Виндовс. The fact that the original name 'Windows' is used in Windows translation is simply in conflict with Serbian language rules.

Croatian language rules may differ in this respect.



When it comes to translating technical terms, the language experts do in fact ask the experts in the technical field for their opinion. Developing technical vocabulary has not been the priority in the last years, but the cooperation exists in principle. ETF does have a lot of say in the development of technical vocabulary. This is not interference but rather the way things should work.

f