On three separate occasions in Nov/04 I attempted to purchase SkypeOut credits using my VISA. MoneyBookers and other third party billing options are NOT an option so don't start. All of these attempts failed and the status for all three on the Skype website is 'Cancelled'. Back then I contacted Live Chat on multiple occasions and the results were always the same. Total frustration with robotic respnses and no resolution. I was promised email followup on multiple occasions. It never happened. I visited my bank, and they checked the VISA transactions at their end and assured me that the purcheses had been approved, that funds were reserved, and that Skype had cancelled the transactions. No problem at VISA end.

So I gave up ..... for awhile.

During all of this time I have been very aware of the billing issues being discussed on this forum. Many people were having the same problem. It really seemed to me that Skype had accepted responsibility, but, for whatever reason, were unable to remedy the situation immediately, but that it would be fixed eventually.

On Feb 11/05 I submitted my problem to Skype billing via email. The initial response did not arrive until Feb 17 (so much for 3 business day response). The reply I got was similar to the boilerplate responses I had seen many times before, and included the suggestion that the most likely reason the the transactions failed was 'a technical problem between our payment provider's system and your bank's accounting system'. Well DUH!

So I replied again, this time in considerable detail. VISA now uses another level of security for online transactions. Essentially I establish a password that I VISA verifies, thus avoiding the HOLE that would otherwise occur if the vendor is unable to swipe the card directly and to verify identities in person. VISA calls this extra level 'Verified by VISA'. I have been assured by VISA that I have consistently passed this security check and my transactions were indeed approved.

For some reason Skype is apparently never informed of this approval, or perhaps not quickly enough, because the transactions are ultimately Cancelled (I was never concerned about being billed for services not received, and the funds have always been credited back to VISA)

Today I received another reply from Skype billing. It says 'according to our logs there were no problems with your order on our side. Please try again.'

So after going on 4 months, the best that Skype can suggest is to try again. Clearly the three failed transactions are still showing on Skype's website as having been Cancelled. Skype is suggesting that the cancellation was initiated by VISA and, at the same time, they are confirming that I provided all the necessary information as far as Skype is concerned. So at least I think I know for sure that I didn't make any mistakes.

But, after all this time, we seem to be back at SQUARE ONE, with Skype saying it's a VISA problem and VISA saying that it's a Skype problem.

I will try the transaction ONE MORE TIME, and then I'll re-visit my bank later today to discuss this matter further, because I have no confidence that my attempt will succeed.

What I need here is some MANUAL INTERVENTION. Somehow I have to get Skype and VISA talking driectly to each other to remedy this problem.

Good grief

Did you see that they have now added Paypal as a payment option? It seems like a good altenative

I could not buy Skype out credit with my CIBC Visa, but my Royal Bank Visa worked no problem

Have a read at www.paypalsucks.com and then decide for yourself

Obviously you have a problem with Paypal. I would suggest that you don't use it then. I mentioed it as an alternative to using Moneybookers or having the issue with your credit cards.

I personally do not have a problem with Paypal. I use it for auctions and other online transactions and never had a problem. I also read the forums at ebay and have seen many people that have not forfeited their credit card protection by agreeing to use Paypal. In fact it is quite the opposite. It seems to offer double the protection in some cases. I am not going to argue it with you. It obviously makes you feel uncomfortable

You may want to consideri trying another method to buy Skype credits. So far stomping your feet and complaining isn't working for you. The time wasted at your bank probably offsets the fees that you would pay through another service (such as Paypal as an example)

Miracle of miracles, my VISA transaction was accepted!

I thought it was a bit odd however, almost like there might have been a manual override, but that's just my suspicious mind at work. And I'm not really looking forward to the time when I need to re-charge the account. I guess we'll see.

Today, when I attempted to purchase SkypeOut credits, I waited for awhile on the first screen that you are sent to after submitting the transaction (the one that says it will take about 15 seconds to update the account, or words to that effect), and when I finally returned to my account page to check the status of the order, it showed as Cancelled.

This was not a surprise to me, and my heart sank.

But when I returned a few minutes later (I wanted to print a hard-copy), the status has changed to DELIVERED, something I have never seen before. A quick check on the Skype Start Window confirmed that my SkypeOut balance shows as 10 Euros. Hooray!

I just hope SkypeOut will be worth the wait (and the grey hairs).

Neil,

I took the liberty of looking up your data in our backend. Allow me to explain whats going on.

We use a number of methods to authenticate shoppers. Two of those are "CVC code verification" and "3Dsecure" (verified by visa/mastercard securecode). These involve direct communication between our payment provider and your bank systems. For your older orders, the verification was not provided by your bank to our payment provider, but for the most recent one, it was. The online financial systems are improving all the time and features keep being added to the interfaces between all the parties (different banks support different capabilities and improve over time).

So, your recent order is perfectly good and you can assume it will remain working from now on. And you can say thanks to your bank for improving their systems

Terminus,

Thank-you for clarifying the issue.

Please tell me why I have had to struggle so long for a precise description of what the problem even was. Armed with the info you have provided I would have had a good shot at laying this to rest the same day I visited my bank months ago. Very frustrating.

I assume that you are not the only one with such skills. You must be very busy.

One other thing that's been bothering me for months -- why doesn't your company use its own product to communicate with its customers? It seems like such an obvious thing. I assume that this has come up before? Is it some sort of security issue? I'm really curious........

we are constantly walking a thin line between giving information to users while avoiding to give information that would be useful for fraudsters. giving exact realtime information why an order was cancelled/rejected would hurt us as it would help fraudsters to workaround our security checks.


you mean allow to call support people over skype? the problem is that this does not scale. we have close to 30 *million* users yet only couple of dozen support people.

or did you mean something else?

- jaan

Jaan,

Was there something in Terminus' reply that would have helped a fraudster? We're not talking about real time information here anyway. The earliest Skype would have responded via email would have been 3 business days after the fact, not that this ever happened mind you. I was left in the lurch for weeks, and it would have been forever had I not re-contacted Skype. It just went on and on. Then I gave up in frustration until just recently. At no time did Skype follow up with me in any way.

And yes, I was refering to Skype personell using Skype to communicate with it's customers to fix problems. I don't think email scales any better, and you're not considering the difference in efficiency. Look at all the lost time and effort using email -- there is simply too much room for misinterpretation of the written word, which also complicates matters.

There's no reason why direct contact with your customers cannot be included at the appropriate point in a clear escalation policy that you actually enforce. Does Skype disagree with this?

Still, that does not really makes sense. I am in the same situation where skype tells me Visa lies and Visa tells me Skype lies (there is no other explanation for it). At the same time we use that card for daily transactions and ONLY Skype has the problem. So I an inclined to believe Visa. The fact Skype tells me 'there is no problem, try again' to a customer that wants to pay for a service, is hard to take.

But as your actions worked great for the first poster of this mail (he is allowed to pay now), would you please do the same for me? MathijsKok is the user name. Visa card.

As I see that you tried (and were unfortunately rejected) quite a while ago, may I suggest that you try again? Our processing backend was significantly improved after you tried to order from us and there's a good chance it goes through this time, even though it didn't before with the same card/data.

the problem is that skypeout is a low margin business, so providing - say - 15 minutes of live support over skype can wipe out all future profits from given customer. so, financially, email is much more sensible option for now.

- jaan

When can we start using VISA directly to buy Skype credits. Bring it back or you will loose a faithful customer. The other stuff does not work (PAlpay etc..)
A frustrated customer

Strange, my VISA credit card works fine for me. And a friend of mine bought Skype Out credits yesterday as well using a VISA credit card - what is all the trouble about?

Regards,

Gerard (Netherlands)

I cannot use my VISA without having to sign up in one of those obnoxious websites (Money.., and Palpay). Before I had only a couple steps to follow now I have to give them all kind of information (private such as bank accounts and phone numbers). Are we going back to the screen where I can select VISA and buy my credits? No more hoops, please

The issue of credit card withdrawal was/is in the USA due to large fraudulent cases.

I understand SKYPE is working to re-enstate credit cards within next few weeks in USA but can guarantee a firm date yet.

They fully understand the inconvenience and frustrations

Sorry if you got the impression that I was suggesting that every Skypeout problem be resolved by your billing dept using Skype to contact the user. I referred to a 'clear escalation policy'. So far there is no indication that you have any such policy, nor is it obvious that there is any followup on any given issue. From what I've experienced, it is left entirely up to the user. And I'll bet many users just give up in frustration. If there is an escalation policy, then it should be communicated to the users so they can have a reasonable expectation.

As for revenue, I guess you consider the permanent loss of a paying customer, along with the accompanying 'bad press' that this ex-user will spread to all potential future Skype users is not worth doing something about, especially with business expanding at the current rate. I would submit to you that MANY businesses have gone belly-up suffering this delusion.

As things stand now, I doubt very much if you have the ability to track the resources you burn by dragging out the process via email. This is very reminiscent of a 'get it off my plate at any cost' mentality.

Sigh