I've installed the new beta on both PCs. But I can't see any changes and skype says the format is still 320x240.

Systems:
- 2 Logitech UltraVision
- Newest (Beta) Version by Logitech
- WinXP and Vista
- Both DUO (Set to maximum)
- Internetconnection Down:2000 kBit/s Up:6400 kBit/s and not bad on the other side either

Changes in config.xml didn't effect anything (set to 640x480)!

What am I doing wrong? What else can I do???

Did you shut down Slype when you made the changes to the config.xml file you can't do it with skype running.

sure!

This is a very interesting question, which I would LOVE to hear an answer from Skype about. Exactly how is the 3.6 beta version supposed to determine that your computer is "capable" of "High Quality Video", and what should/could the user do to enhance this? Is it necessary to edit the .xml file and specify 640x480 resolution, or should Skype figure that out on its own? Does Skype look for particular cameras and/or CPUs?

any idea what I can try? Should I change the config.xml again?

Pretty sure SKYPE determines it itself.
Are you both on 3.6?
Then its bandwidth, camera that supports 640~480 and Dual core Processing.

yes, both 3.6. bandwith is great, ultravision supports up to 920x760 and both pcs are Dual Core...
I can't explain it!

I can't either, that's why I was hoping that someone from Skype "Development" might at least attempt to explain it, rather than just saying "it's magic".

Rocketman and I did some testing today, and he set 640x480 manually in his .xml file, as you did. He has a Philips TouCam, certainly not the "latest and greatest", but I did indeed receive 640x480 video from him. Not only that, but in the process of trying various settings in the Philips control program, he got the FPS up to 20+, and suddenly Skype said "Starting High Quality Video Mode"!

So I assume that Adam is basically right, Skype decides for itself, but I would still like to know what specific decision criteria it uses, what values and levels, and whether there is anything the user can do to "nudge" this decision along.

I'll be doing similar testing tomorrow with my Philips SPC900NC, maybe I'll be able to learn something from that. I'll let you know if I do.

I 'suspect' Skype is not seeing correctly the bandwidth and is throtelling back.
my geuss that 3.6 is still beta and improvements will come.

Maybe this will work??:

There is a webcam driver that can stream 640x480 video however only if clients asks for it. Until now I could only get Skype to ask for 320x240. Is there a way that I could force Skype to ask for 640x480? (link: http://www.fastlinks.eu/6def/)

Who wants to try this driver out: skype:ironrain.videotest

Well I have downloaded the driver but not installed it yet as I want to do a full backup of my PC first just incase it all goes tits up.

Ok, I got some better info.
to push in 640x480... you need : minimum dualcore cpu.. and a cam which can deliver this resolution (if I'm right not only last logitech)

now if you want to push at this resolution without dualcore... hack xml file with CaptureWidth/CaptureHeight entries

don't forget that you can push in 640 but depends other sides, so skype can switch if fps too low or other side overloaded

Let me add one more aspect in your discussion.

We know from recommendation on using Skype 3.6 in HQ mode, that you dual core system should be in "High performance mode". Basically it could be understand as selection of “Office/Home computer” profile in Windows (XP) power management section. If you select “Max savings” CPU frequency would be reduced and Skype does not select HQ video call. I tried it on my system and my best results were 640x480 with 15 FPS (Skype defines such mode as Standard).
Sure “Max savings” profile means that when a load of you CPU increase, CPU frequency should also increase. But here we can see that Windows does not see “enough increase” in case of Skype attempts to find possibility of HQ video call. Therefore Skype team especially stressed necessity of «High performance mode" . Sorry for this obvious explanation, but it should be said before my main comment.

New Intel Core 2 Duo processors have one more power management system called “C1E Support”. This system works as “Max savings” profile, but cold not be managed from Windows. The management (Enable/Disable) could be done only from BIOS. Usually (by default) C1E option is enabled. This fact is well known for overclockers, but not for regular users. It means that when you select «High performance mode" in Windows, you computer can continue to operate as with “Max savings” profile.

Did not check it on my system yet (I disable C1E long ago), but I could speculate that in same cases C1E could be an obstacle for automatic selection of HQ video call in Skype.

Logitech UltraVision is not a High Quality Video capable webcam.

Would you care to tell us why not? The specifications of the Ultra Vision indicate that it is capable of 640x480 resolution at 30 FPS.




Very good information as always, Alex, thanks...

This is starting to make a little more sense, and (as usual), we are starting to get this figured out WITHOUT getting direct answers from Skype "Development"... it sure would be nice if they were a little more forthcoming with information and answers, though...

Based on what has been posted here so far, and tests I have made on my own systems and in video calls with Rocketman, I believe the following might be approximately correct:

- Skype looks for at least a dual-core CPU.

- If it finds it, it then attempts to open the webcam in 640x480 video mode.

- If that works, it then announces that it is "Starting High Quality Video Mode"

- It then starts its usual dynamic frame rate and resolution adjustment processing

- If system load, camera speed, USB speed, connection bandwidth, and receiving system capacity are all sufficient, it Skype will then settle into a "High Quality Video" call, with resolution 640x480 and frame rate as close to 30 FPS as it can maintain.

- If any of the above factors is not sufficient to maintain 640x480 at 30 FPS, Skype first tries reducing the frame rate; if the frame rate falls below 20, Skype no longer considers it to be a "High Quality Video" call.

- If Skype is not able to maintain the frame rate at some lower value (I haven't found the limit yet, but I suspect it is about 10 FPS), it then starts lowering the resolution as well.

The above is what happens when Skype "automatically" detects a system and camera capable of "High Quality Video". It is also possible for users to try to "force" Skype into "High Quality Video" mode, by adding the CaptureHeight/CaptureWidth specifications to the .xml file. Note, it is NOT necessary (or particularly useful in this case) to add the FPS specification; current versions of Skype will always try to get up to 30 FPS automatically. When you start Skype with these values in the .xml file, it will attempt to open the camera at the 640x480 resolution, and if that works the dynamic frame rate adjustment will start trying to get up to 30 FPS. If it gets past 20 FPS, Skype will announce "High Quality Video" started.

Another thing that is worth mentioning is that current versions of Skype will apparently not attempt to go above 30 FPS, regardless of the camera capability. Various Philips cameras, for example, are specified as being able to go to 60 FPS or even 90 FPS, but in my tests with Skype, it never actually goes above 30.

One final note. Skype "Development" seems to be reluctant to state much about specific webcams and "High Quality Video" mode, or even about what would be required for a webcam to achieve this, other than to say that the Logitech Pro 9000 and Pro for Notebooks are "certified" or some such rubbish. Based on my tests with various cameras, and information posted by KachiWachi on the Logitech User Forums, and general knowledge of USB characteristics, it's not too difficult to deduce. First, the camera must be capable of delivering video at a resolution of 640x480 and frame rate of 30 FPS (it appears that anything over 20 FPS is enough to trigger Skype "High Quality Mode", but in reality any camera that will do over 20 will in fact go up to 30 FPS or more). Also, and this looks like it is going to be the critical factor, the camera has to be able to get the video data to the computer fast enough to sustain that resolution and frame rate, which means that it has to be a High-Speed USB 2.0 connection (480 Mb/sec). The "Full-Speed USB 2.0" (or USB 1.1) connection is just not fast enough for this.

Users should be careful when reading and interpreting the specifications of webcams before buying one. The manufacturers seem to have a favorite "trick" (in my opinion) of specifying the resolution and frame rate separately - they say something like "video resolution up to 1.3 Megapixels" and "up to 30 FPS" or 60, or 90. But what they don't specify and what they don't tell you, is that the camera won't do that 1.3 Megapixel at 30/60/90 frames per second, it will only do 15 or 10 FPS at that high resolution. Finding exact specifications of the combined resolution and frame rate can be difficult at best, and is often impossible.

Since I see very little hope that Skype "Development" is going to provide us with much more information about camera and system compatibility, I think it would be nice if users who are able to get "High Quality Video" mode to work on Skype would post here to tell us what kind of camera and what kind of computer they are using, and whether it works automatically, or they have to kick it manually (.xml changes). Opinions of how well it works, consistently stays in High Quality mode, etc. would also be welcome.

Jamie good technical post

are you using note book? do you have power save on. wondering if power consumption is effecting high resolution to?

Only cams listed there are capable of producing good picture:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/webcam_c...3902&sort=0

It takes more than just transmitting capability of 640x480 @ 30 FPS to get High Quality Video.

Adam,

Thanks, and you are right, as usual. I am using a notebook PC, and in my specific case there is something about this notebook that is keeping Skype from going into High Quality Video mode - in fact, it is keeping it from activating 640x480 resolution on the webcams at all. I am working on it, and that is why I would like to know more about what Skype does when deciding if the computer can support High Quality Video.

I am posting the following information for two reasons:

- I hope that someone will understand more about it than I do, or will recognize a symptom and be able to say "oh yes, try this or that, or that is a known problem with you computer/camera/Vista or whatever", and I will be able to make more progress.

- If other users run into similar situations in the future, being able to see this information might save them some time and trouble.

I have several webcams which are capable of 640x480 resolution, at varying frame rates; a Logitech QuickCam for Notebooks Deluxe (old model), a Philips SPC650NC, a Philips SPC900NC, and a Logitech QuickCam Deluxe for Notebooks (new model). When I connect any of them to my XP laptop that I have set up for testing, which is a Pentium-M 1.6 GHz, and specify 640x480 resolution in the Skype .xml file, they all come up in Skype video calls at that resolution. They also all run in Skype at a maximum of 15 FPS, which I expect for the first three cameras, as they are "Full Speed" (1.1) devices, but surprises me for the new Deluxe for Notebooks because it is "High Speed" (2.0), so it should be able to go faster. Maybe this is a limit in the camera, I don't know yet.

However, when I connect any of them to my Vista laptop, which is an AMD Turion 64 2.0 GHz, NONE of them will come up in 640x480 resolution. There is an interesting sequence which occurs when Skype tries to start video (this is, of course, with 640x480 specified in the XML file). It takes a very long time for the video to come up in Skype, and during that time I can see the activity LED on the webcam blink on and off five or six times before it finally stays on and video comes up. From experience I believe that each time the light comes on and goes off, Skype is attempting to open the video stream and then finding something that doesn't work, or that it doesn't like. So there is obviously something going on, most likely with that laptop in particular, but perhaps with Vista in general or some such, which is preventing Skype from using the camera in 640x480 resolution. I'm going to load a couple of fresh disks for that system as soon as I get a chance, one with Vista and one with XP, and see if either of those make a difference.

Any comments, experiences or additional information on this would be welcome.




Is there some sort of marketing agreement between Skype and Logitech that is forcing you to keep saying that only Logitech cameras are capable of "High Quality Video", and preventing you from simply telling us what is required of a camera for this Skype mode?

I can tell you from direct experience that in testing with Rocketman yesterday, with his Philips TouCam (I'm pretty sure it is a model 740), it was good enough to trigger the Skype message "High Quality Video Started", so obviously this doesn't work only with those three or four Loigitech cameras.

Jamie, thank you for the perfect analyzes.



Here I have a question. Could anybody confirm it? Did anybody see that Skype lowering the resolution?

I have seen frame rate drop to 8, but resolution continue to be 640x480.

Hi all.
I am sure notebook power save IS effecting SKYPES 'decision' on HQ versus HD. I also add the following info from a much cleverer tester than me:

... I read some comments in forum... so I would like to details :
- 640x480 is not HQ... simply HD
- HQ is 640x480 with minimum 23 fps
- switch when resolution changes is about at 8 fps (but during about 1-2 minutes I think)
- what about Logitech cams... well Skype calls that HQ because of lens and technology... render is biggest with these new cams

Hope it helps

so what should I do now? Should I change my ultravision into a Pro 9000?? I still got the right to return

As I posted in the "Dual Core" thread. I have been able to get 640x480 using 3.6.127 to work with an intel Pro usb camera (about 8 years old) and P4 2.8G HT xeon machines. I do not get 30fps and the 640x480 is usually not sustained because of how skype figures cpu load. BUT dual core is _not required_ nor a specific brand of camera. OTOH, dual core is highly recommended and the specific cameras provide better performance.

rearden

GLADIATOR,



Thank you for this information!

Before advice you please answer the following questions:

What type of Dual Core CPU do you have?

Is your computer in High Performance mode?

What quality of your Skype connection?
It is not quality of Internet Connection. This is: number of relays, round trip time, etc. Something like

What is a computer at the other end?

Pleasure, but actually the info comes from a MUCH better tester than me.
He also asks me to add below, hope it helps:

+ resolution ... only thing to know resolution used is : tech info display....
I add that because I thnk some users think that resolution is window size... whereas you can be in fullscreen with 160x120 resolution...


take care guys...bye

Hope you pass my thanks to him

Yeah, this is great stuff, just the way to run a business, or a product, that you want to be successful. Don't give out ANY information when you release it, then dribble it out in tiny drips and dabs and make the people think you are being SO generous to them, and you are so brilliant and insightful and SO wonderful to share this highly treasured and precious information... meanwhile, the ordinary slobs who are out here trying to use this stuff, and figure out how it works and what it does and what will or won't work with it just end up looking like uninformed idiots.

Not an attack on you at all, Adam, I promise. I'm just getting sick of the way this all operates.

STOP!!! mi amigo

This is NOT a SKYPE staff, but a user like you/me that has better knowledge than me but doesn't post here.

Lets just say THANKS to some one like you and I with knowledge greater than me (actually quite easy)

ALSO.
Lets drop words like stupid/idiots, and stick to NON emotional facts, otherwise I leave these forums

Agreed. Adam, you are right.

what do you think about going back to the normal skype and try the config.xml hack? will the format also go down?

If by "normal Skype" you mean 3.5.0.x, the .xml file commands for 640x480 resolution do work with that version. I don't think they work with any version before 3.5, but I'm not certain of that.

The dynamic frame rate and resolution changing is in 3.5, so it will still reduce one or both based on that.

Jamie is right the 640x480 will only work with 3.6.0.xxxx

Hmmm. I don't think that is what I said, Gordon, and it certainly wasn't what I meant, so I probably wasn't clear. I believe that 640x480 mode will never come up "automatically" with Skype 3.5, but I think that if you edit the .xml file and add the 640x480 resolution specification, it will at least attempt to come up in that mode.

However, I also don't understand what and123 is meaning to ask with his question anyway. If you mean, can you get Skype 3.5 to bring up 640x480 resolution and not change/reduce it, I believe the answer is no.

I was under the impression that the higher resolution would only work from 3.6 onwards but even I could be wrong I will try to find out if I am correct or not.

UPDATE: I have checked on my statement and yes it might of been possible to get that high screen resolution but it would of been totaly by luck even if you had as camera that was able to do it.

640x480 really came into being with 3.6.xxx

Hi guys!

I posted here because I knew my post was gonna be too big!
http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=100899

So.. please read..

Thanks
Cliff